Hej Wilfred!

It's not the FTSC's job to suggest changes.

You've just pointed out the first required proper change.

If you want changes, you have to implement them as a developper.
And have other developpers follow your changes. If enough nodes
start using those changes, it can be documented by the FTSC as
current practice...

Near as I can tell that has never worked. Since the above ideaology has been forwarded, all that has been documented is total BS. I see some evidencc of this in your MSG body. ;-)

Het leven is goed,
Maurice

-o o- -o o-
(\ /) (\ /)
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
... Fidonet 1080p - De vier pinguïns van de Apocalyps
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.21(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint @ (2:280/464.113)

Hello Wilfred van Velzen!

It's not the FTSC's job to suggest changes. If you want
changes, you have to implement them as a developper. And
have other developpers follow your changes. If enough
nodes start using those changes, it can be documented by
the FTSC as current practice...

But why the necessity of so many people overlooking practically
a non-event? Do, the members have a commitment to keep their
finger on the pulse where development is occurring?

I'd be at least somewhat impressed if the spelling and
grammatical mistakes in the existing documents were addressed.
;)

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.58
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

Hey Serak!

Here is a fine example of what would be a deal breaker to most. Me? You know better than that. Not only am I smart and good looking, I am made of tougher stuff than the typical nodlisted Fidonet sysop. :-)

<Esc>:read !trans -b -no-ansi -t he "To pronounce it correctly, I would have to pull out your tongue." | sed 's/^ *//'
.ךלש ןושלה תא ףולשל ךרטצא ,ןוכנ הז תא אטבל ידכ

Note that the above is Hebrew ... or should be ... and I took the liberty of stripping out the leading spaces since a 4k terminal results in a very long line as the first character will be displayed at the end of the line and the entire line will be vastly greater that what will fit into a Subject line.

As shown the Hebrew Subject line is exactly 46 utf-8 characters which *should* fit into a FTN Subject which can be up to 71 characters. However a byte count yeilds 82 bytes which the typical FTN abandonware will consider too long and chop off the last (actually first since Hebrew is read right to left) 12 bytes. Note I say bytes and not characters since DOS-think types cannot count straight, especially when they treat stings as numbers. Very sad.

So much for utf-8 and FTS-5003. As is that document is sadly lacking wrt utf-8 charcters and probably should have it's own documentation in order to escape crippleware developers.

Also there is no such thing as LATIN-1. It is the end result of some Gatesian nightmare you can never wake up from.

Life is good,
Maurice

o- -o o- o- -o o- o- o- -o -o -o -o o- o- o- o- /) (\ /) /) (\ /) /) /) (\ (\ (\ (\ /) /) /) /) ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Fidonet 4K - You load sixteen penguins and what do you get?
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.26(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: One of us @ (1:153/7001.2989)

On 28 Feb. 2024 01:17, you wrote to Serak:

<Esc>:read !trans -b -no-ansi -t he "To pronounce it correctly, I would have to pull out your tongue." | sed 's/^ *//' .?????? ?????????? ?�?? ?�???????? ?????????? ,???????? ???? ?�?? ???????? ??????

Sorry, but Aftershock had trouble with it.

So much for utf-8 and FTS-5003. As is that document is sadly lacking wrt utf-8 charcters and probably should have it's own documentation in order to escape crippleware developers.

I have no idea. But maybe the expectation of having utf-8 is overrated in this hobby network?



--- AfterShock/Android 1.7.5
* Origin: Mobile Pixel 3aXL (2:221/1.59)

Hej August!

maybe the expectation of having utf-8 is overrated in this hobby
network?

That is one way of looking at it. More reason it shouldn't be in that particular document.

Het leven is goed,
Maurice

-o o- -o o-
(\ /) (\ /)
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
... Fidonet 1080p - De vier pinguïns van de Apocalyps
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.26(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint @ (2:280/464.113)

On Wed, 28 Feb 2024 01:17:42 GMT
"Maurice Kinal -> Serak the Preparer" <2989@7001.153.1> wrote:

<Esc>:read !trans -b -no-ansi -t he "To pronounce it correctly, I would have to pull out your tongue." | sed 's/^ *//'
.ךלש ןושלה תא ףולשל ךרטצא ,ןוכנ הז תא
אטבל ידכ

Note that the above is Hebrew ... or should be ... and I took the
liberty of stripping out the leading spaces since a 4k terminal results

The hebrew letters appear to be fine under my nntp read Sylpheed.

👍 +1

However, an nntp reader is outside the scope of what fidonet is.

As shown the Hebrew Subject line is exactly 46 utf-8 characters which *should* fit into a FTN Subject which can be up to 71 characters.
However a byte count yeilds 82 bytes which the typical FTN abandonware will consider too long and chop off the last (actually first since
Hebrew is read right to left) 12 bytes. Note I say bytes and not characters since DOS-think types cannot count straight, especially when they treat stings as numbers. Very sad.

Solution: FTS should limit utf-8 chars only to the message body only.

So much for utf-8 and FTS-5003. As is that document is sadly lacking
wrt utf-8 charcters and probably should have it's own documentation in order to escape crippleware developers.

I would tend to agree.

Anyhow.. it seems that utf-8 was "approved" without the evidence of ample usage of utf-8.

Also there is no such thing as LATIN-1. It is the end result of some Gatesian nightmare you can never wake up from.

No comment.

---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

Hey August!

.ךלש ןושלה תא ףולשל ךרטצא ,ןוכנ הז תא
אטבל ידכ

The hebrew letters appear to be fine under my nntp read Sylpheed.

Yes and no. Notice where it split the line. That is why I didn't use it as an actual Subject and kept it in the msg_body just to ensure it would be lossless. It's one thing to strip off characters at the end of a line but when characters at the start of the line disappear, it make it more difficult to fill in the blanks.

However, an nntp reader is outside the scope of what fidonet is.

Agreed, and that is a good thing methinks. I've always disliked newsgroups.

Solution: FTS should limit utf-8 chars only to the message body
only.

That appears to be the case. So far I seem to be the only one who has a half-assed handle on this obvious problem.

it seems that utf-8 was "approved" without the evidence of ample
usage of utf-8.

More reason NOT to let developers lead the standardization process, nevermind the users of their apps. There is definetly a confict of interest, nevermind the ones who are clueless as to how things REALLY work.

No comment.

Heh, heh. This shouldn't be political.

Life is good,
Maurice

-o o- -o o- o- o- -o o- o- o- o- o- o- o- -o -o
(\ /) (\ /) /) /) (\ /) /) /) /) /) /) /) (\ (\
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--- GNU bash, version 5.2.26(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: One of us @ (1:153/7001.2989)

Hey August!

Are you familiar with the UTF-8 echo?

Yes I was aware of it.

Perhaps it was set up to help promote utf-8 inclusion and use.

That sounds reasonable.

Life is good,
Maurice

o- o- -o -o -o o- -o o- o- o- -o -o -o -o -o o- /) /) (\ (\ (\ /) (\ /) /) /) (\ (\ (\ (\ (\ /) ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Fidonet 4K - You load sixteen penguins and what do you get?
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.26(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: One of us @ (1:153/7001.2989)