complete and utter clusterf**k. Effectively not readable
due to format mangling, lack of quoting, and general
stupidity.

You keep ignoring the fact that your first instance of a
complaint in LITRGP was based on a quoting issue due to
Aftershock, and not Tg. I agree with your latter point though;
since your participation, stupidity has emerged.

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

August Abolins wrote to Dan Clough <=-

complete and utter clusterf**k. Effectively not readable
due to format mangling, lack of quoting, and general
stupidity.

You keep ignoring the fact that your first instance of a
complaint in LITRGP was based on a quoting issue due to
Aftershock, and not Tg. I agree with your latter point though;
since your participation, stupidity has emerged.

I don't know (or care) what Aftershock is, and either way, whether it's
that or TG, or both, the end result is: The echo is trashed and
basically un-useable by those using "traditional" Fidonet software /
message reading tools. Your claim that I'm stupid is just sour grapes
at being called out on it. Anyone can see that I'm telling the truth by simply trying to read messages in that group. It's that simple,
simpleton.



... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

I don't know (or care) what Aftershock is,...

Noted.

..the end result is: The echo is trashed..

All the posts from YOUR system don't even use the "traditional"
quoting with the intials. Why not try to conform to the
"tradition" that you speak of yourself.



--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

17 nov 2022 07:54, Dan Clough -> August Abolins

I don't know (or care) what Aftershock is,

AfterShock is a FTN point package for Android that integrates mailer (binkp), tosser and editor. Netmail is stored as *.msg, echomail in Squish format.

So it's sort of "traditional"...

Carlos

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.11
* Origin: cybShock (2:341/234.1234)

August Abolins wrote to Dan Clough <=-

I don't know (or care) what Aftershock is,...

Noted.

..the end result is: The echo is trashed..

All the posts from YOUR system don't even use the "traditional"
quoting with the intials. Why not try to conform to the
"tradition" that you speak of yourself.

Baloney. I just looked at my message that you replied to here, and it's perfectly formatted with your initials before what you said, and my
initials before what I said.

I guess your mobile garbage is more broken then previously thought.



... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Carlos Navarro wrote to Dan Clough <=-

17 nov 2022 07:54, Dan Clough -> August Abolins

I don't know (or care) what Aftershock is,

AfterShock is a FTN point package for Android that integrates
mailer (binkp), tosser and editor. Netmail is stored as *.msg,
echomail in Squish format.

So it's sort of "traditional"...

Perhaps it is, but the output it produces is garbage.



... Daddy, what does "now formatting drive C:" mean?
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

17 nov 2022 10:30, Dan Clough -> Carlos Navarro

AfterShock is a FTN point package for Android that integrates
mailer (binkp), tosser and editor. Netmail is stored as *.msg,
echomail in Squish format.

So it's sort of "traditional"...

Perhaps it is, but the output it produces is garbage.

Please give me some example, to check what you mean. Echo and MSGID or datetime of message...

Carlos

--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.11
* Origin: cybShock (2:341/234.1234)

Baloney. I just looked at my message that you replied to here, and it's ..

You need to study ALL the messages originating from you system. RF's quoted messages do not bear any initials at all, for example.

I guess your mobile garbage is more broken then previously thought.

Your system seems to reveal its own issues.


--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.11
* Origin: Mobile Pix (2:221/1.59)

Carlos Navarro wrote to Dan Clough <=-

AfterShock is a FTN point package for Android that integrates
mailer (binkp), tosser and editor. Netmail is stored as *.msg,
echomail in Squish format.

So it's sort of "traditional"...

Perhaps it is, but the output it produces is garbage.

Please give me some example, to check what you mean. Echo and
MSGID or datetime of message...

The Fidonet "RPG Literature" echo is the only place that I see frequent
use of Aftershock/Telegram. Nearly any message in there is a good
example.



... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

august abolins wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Baloney. I just looked at my message that you replied to here, and it's

..

You need to study ALL the messages originating from you system.

No, I don't. The *ONLY* echo where I see this garbage is the RPG Lit
one, where most users seem to be using the broken software.

RF's quoted messages do not bear any initials at all, for
example.

If that's the case it's because they weren't there when they arrived
(several layers/indents deep).

I guess your mobile garbage is more broken then previously thought.

Your system seems to reveal its own issues.

The issue is not with my system. The *ONLY* place that I consistently
notice the formatting garbage is where you mobile users are posting.



... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

The issue is not with my system. ...

Yes it is. I told you to look at RF's messages. They originate
from your system.

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

17 Nov 2022 18:35, you wrote to me:

Perhaps it is, but the output it produces is garbage.

Please give me some example, to check what you mean. Echo and
MSGID or datetime of message...

The Fidonet "RPG Literature" echo is the only place that I see
frequent use of Aftershock/Telegram. Nearly any message in there is a good example.

After a quick glance at LITRPG the only messages with bad quotes I find are some from John Dovey, replies to you or to Richard Falken.

Those have quotes like this:

====

This is quoted text...
====

instead of:

====

This is quoted text...

====

Is that what you meant?

I think I know why it is (sometimes) happenning. I'll report this to Aftershock's developer.

Carlos

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)

Carlos Navarro wrote to Dan Clough <=-

The Fidonet "RPG Literature" echo is the only place that I see
frequent use of Aftershock/Telegram. Nearly any message in there is a good example.

After a quick glance at LITRPG the only messages with bad quotes
I find are some from John Dovey, replies to you or to Richard
Falken.

Those have quotes like this:

====

This is quoted text...
====

instead of:

====

This is quoted text...

====

Is that what you meant?

Yes, that's one type. Also some wrapping / linelength issues, which
could be just poor configuration by the user.

Another probably-user problem is the complete lack of quoting of any
kind by some users. Maybe they're ignorant, or maybe the software
doesn't quote by default, I don't know.

I think I know why it is (sometimes) happenning. I'll report this
to Aftershock's developer.

Well that's excellent, thanks.


... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hi Carlos,

I think I know why it is (sometimes) happenning. I'll report this to Aftershock's developer.

I have report it to Anatoly.


---
Best regards,
Rudi Timmermans.
--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.11
* Origin: Light Station (2:292/140)

18 Nov 2022 19:57, you wrote to me:

I think I know why it is (sometimes) happenning. I'll report this
to Aftershock's developer.

I have report it to Anatoly.

Ok, anyway I'm reporting this in the AFTERSHOCK echo with more info about the issue.

Carlos

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)

18 Nov 2022 19:57, you wrote to me:

I think I know why it is (sometimes) happenning. I'll report this
to Aftershock's developer.

I have report it to Anatoly.

Ok, anyway I'm reporting this in the AFTERSHOCK echo with more info about the issue.

Carlos

Thanks Carlos.
--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
* Origin: FireCat Mobile (4:920/1.1)

18 Nov 2022 11:34, you wrote to me:

Yes, that's one type. Also some wrapping / linelength issues, which
could be just poor configuration by the user.

If you find some example please give me some info about those message(s), so that I can check...

I think I know why it is (sometimes) happenning. I'll report this
to Aftershock's developer.

Well that's excellent, thanks.

And it will be fixed in version 1.6.12 - I've already checked the beta and works fine!

Carlos

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)

//Hello Dan,//

on *09.11.22* at *2:42:00* You wrote in area *FN_SYSOP*
to *Nigel Reed* about *"Re: Bad behaviour not wanted."*.

It's supposed to be sysop-only. Unfortunately many sysops don't
bother to properly configure their echos, and don't seem to care even
when that is pointed out. The web interface is another way it becomes public, and find-able in search engines. Again, because of poor configuration by sysops, either through ignorance, or willful disregard.

The web access is especially aggravating to me personally. A BBS should not be also a website, in my opinion. I know, many feel otherwise. To
me it "defeats the purpose" of running a BBS. If you want to run a website, then run a website, not a BBS. It takes away the "privacy" of
a traditional BBS.

agreed

Regards,
Daniel PATH
--- WinPoint 400.2
* Origin: Roon's Point (2:371/52.1)

//Hello Nigel,//

on *09.11.22* at *3:50:41* You wrote in area *FN_SYSOP*
to *Nick Andre* about *"Re: Bad behaviour not wanted."*.

I have no problem with a BBS running a web interface. Time moves on and technology evolves. It's one way to keep the BBS scene alive. The same access levels apply to the echoes available on my website as through the BBS so there's really no loss/gain there. I don't have ssh/telnet access from work so the web interface is a good way for me to connect to my BBS.

how many people read fidonet on the web? ;)

Regards,
Daniel PATH
--- WinPoint 400.2
* Origin: Roon's Point (2:371/52.1)

Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
By: Daniel PATH to Nigel Reed on Wed Nov 09 2022 18:43:21

how many people read fidonet on the web? ;)

I don't know, why don't you go count them?
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

On 09 Nov 22 18:43:21, Daniel Path said the following to Nigel Reed:

how many people read fidonet on the web? ;)

There is at least one or two that constantly look for access to the Z1C echo.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Daniel PATH wrote to Nigel Reed <=-

I have no problem with a BBS running a web interface. Time moves on and technology evolves. It's one way to keep the BBS scene alive. The same access levels apply to the echoes available on my website as through the BBS so there's really no loss/gain there. I don't have ssh/telnet access from work so the web interface is a good way for me to connect to my BBS.

how many people read fidonet on the web? ;)

Back when Doc's Place went down for a while, a year or two ago, there were several displaced readers of the COOKING echo that were looking for a new
board to participate in it from. With one exception, the users I tried to assist were all users of the web interface on that board.


... Computer Hacker wanted. Must have own axe.
--- MultiMail/DOS
* Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)

On 03 Dec 22 10:01:18, Mike Powell said the following to Daniel Path:

Back when Doc's Place went down for a while, a year or two ago, there were several displaced readers of the COOKING echo that were looking for a new

Ahhh, Docs place.

Nice guy... except when he would spam every freaking echo once a year or so.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

03 Dec 22 03:14, Nigel Reed wrote to Daniel PATH:

Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
By: Daniel PATH to Nigel Reed on Wed Nov 09 2022 18:43:21

how many people read fidonet on the web? ;)

I don't know, why don't you go count them?

Quite impossible to count, everyone may read at

http://endofthelinebbs.com/?page=001-forum.ssjs&group=7

* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

'Tommi

---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi (2:221/360)

03 Dec 22 09:13, Nick Andre wrote to Daniel Path:

how many people read fidonet on the web? ;)

There is at least one or two that constantly look for access to the Z1C echo.

Quite easy to get access. Nothing but stupid nodelist processing logs lately.

'Tommi

---
* Origin: rbb.fidonet.fi (2:221/360)

Nice guy... except when he would spam every freaking echo once a year or so.

Uh?

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

http://endofthelinebbs.com/?page=001-forum.ssjs&group=7

This is one is also pretty good, +S)earch'able

https://www.ipingthereforeiam.com/bbs/msgs/

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

This is one is also pretty good, +S)earch'able

https://www.ipingthereforeiam.com/bbs/msgs/

Looks like a graveyard...

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

On 03 Dec 2022 20:04 August Abolins wrote to Tommi Koivula :

http://endofthelinebbs.com/?page=001-forum.ssjs&group=7

This is one is also pretty good, +S)earch'able

https://www.ipingthereforeiam.com/bbs/msgs/

This thing was calling my bbs every day and it was capturing the login screen. Now it is blocked to the mailer.

https://www.ipingthereforeiam.com/bbs/?view=18601


--- AfterShock/Android 1.7.1
* Origin: ----. .---- .---- (2:221/1.911)

This thing was calling my bbs every day and it was capturing the login screen. Now it is blocked to the mailer.

https://www.ipingthereforeiam.com/bbs/?view=18601

What other option would a system like that have? To check once
a week perhaps? Doesn't TelnetBBS Guide do the same thing?

I think the iptia bbs listing-system is a pretty good resource
for the average user.

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

Hello Daniel,

I have no problem with a BBS running a web interface. Time moves on

and

technology evolves. It's one way to keep the BBS scene alive. The

same

access levels apply to the echoes available on my website as through

the

BBS so there's really no loss/gain there. I don't have ssh/telnet

access

from work so the web interface is a good way for me to connect to my

BBS.

how many people read fidonet on the web? ;)

As many who want to.

For Life,
Lee

--
It Ain't Payday If It Ain't Nuts In Your Mouth

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Dan, can you tell me why my ASIAN_LINK never had that? We were in the first
few, and we welcome Telegram users. There have been no issues otherthan a few
*early* ones that caused odd tear lines. They did not affectoperations and
were quickly patched by Stas.

Ignore Dan. He's been irrational on the issue of LitRPG in general and latched onto the "but it's Telegram" argument. He continues to claim things as true which are false, in fact which are demonstrably the opposite to what he claims, on numerous occasions. Don't waste any time or energy on him, just delete and move on.

JD
--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
* Origin: FireCat Mobile (4:920/1.1)

Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
By: Carol Shenkenberger to Nick Andre on Sun Dec 11 2022 03:01 pm

Some areas had them. LA was one of them. The NC required a sysop 'point' for 2 years. I was south of it in net202 and happily doing boss node for 5 or 6 at a time then helping them apply. Brenda Donvan was NC202 and happy to accecpt the new nodes applying with my point address as she knew they were functional with minimal hub assist needed.

Wow, that's a new one to me!

The San Francisco bay area (net 161 and net 125) back in the day had its share of power grabs. The NEC not only had a cost recovery program in place, he tried to discourage people from going outside of the net with Planet Connect or other alternative means ("outing" people who opted out and complaining publicly that doing so would make it difficult to afford the cost recovery program.)

The final straw, if memory serves was that he wanted the net to pay for a fairly high-powered PC and a US Robotics modem, just for handling the mail.

In retrospect, there were probably over 100 nodes or more in the network, and LD was pricey back then.
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Win32
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
By: Carol Shenkenberger to Ward Dossche on Sun Dec 11 2022 04:14 pm

Here's a new one! WE went solar. I am told in my southerly location, it will have just enough heat to melt snow off the panels.

My system won't totally power the house year long but it will power the BBS machines and about 51% of our total use during the year.

I live in a house with 2 kids who leave lights on consistently. My BBS, running on an old laptop, is a rounding error in my electrical bill. It's nice to fly under the radar. :)
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Win32
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

John Dovey wrote to Carol Shenkenberger <=-

Dan, can you tell me why my ASIAN_LINK never had that? We were in the first
few, and we welcome Telegram users. There have been no issues otherthan a few
*early* ones that caused odd tear lines. They did not affectoperations and
were quickly patched by Stas.

Ignore Dan. He's been irrational on the issue of LitRPG in
general and latched onto the "but it's Telegram" argument. He
continues to claim things as true which are false, in fact which
are demonstrably the opposite to what he claims, on numerous
occasions. Don't waste any time or energy on him, just delete and
move on.

"Irrational"? Haha, that's rich. What I claim is that TG and AS users
trash the echos they post in, which is easily verified by just *LOOKING*
at the echo with a "normal" mail reader. Mangled quoting, lack of
context, lack of quoting, etc. It's all right there and easily seen, if
you pull your head out of your ass. That's the end of the argument, all
a person has to do is GO LOOK AT IT.

Your personal grudges at being called out on it don't make you right.



... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
By: Dan Clough to August Abolins on Thu Nov 17 2022 07:54 am

complete and utter clusterf**k. Effectively not readable
due to format mangling, lack of quoting, and general
stupidity.

You keep ignoring the fact that your first instance of a
complaint in LITRGP was based on a quoting issue due to
Aftershock, and not Tg. I agree with your latter point though;
since your participation, stupidity has emerged.

I don't know (or care) what Aftershock is, and either way, whether it's
that or TG, or both, the end result is: The echo is trashed and
basically un-useable by those using "traditional" Fidonet software /
message reading tools. Your claim that I'm stupid is just sour grapes
at being called out on it. Anyone can see that I'm telling the truth by simply trying to read messages in that group. It's that simple,
simpleton.

Dan, can you tell me why my ASIAN_LINK never had that? We were
in the first few, and we welcome Telegram users. There have been
no issues otherthan a few *early* ones that caused odd tear
lines. They did not affectoperations and were quickly patched by
Stas.

Have you considered checking/reading echomail more often than once a
month? I've been all through this and don't feel like re-hashing it yet again. Read the complete thread.



... All the easy problems have been solved.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

BY: Kurt Weiske(1:218/700)

I live in a house with 2 kids who leave lights on consistently. My BBS, running on an old laptop, is a rounding error in my electrical bill.
It's nice to fly under the radar. :)

running the bbs on a gaming computer can be costly.


--- WWIV 5.8.0.3616
* Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (1:218/109)

Matt Munson wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

I live in a house with 2 kids who leave lights on consistently. My BBS, running on an old laptop, is a rounding error in my electrical bill.
It's nice to fly under the radar. :)

running the bbs on a gaming computer can be costly.

Who would be dumb enough to do that?



... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
By: Carol Shenkenberger to Nigel Reed on Sun Dec 11 2022 13:56:32

It's not about zones really. It's about people who are reactive. Reactive to insults or percieved ones.

Well, people need to chill the f*k down. It's a hobby. People do it for the enjoyment. It's a dying hobby, nodes are doing down all the time. This is not a good way to introduce new sysops into the world of BBSing.
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: End Of The Line BBS - endofthelinebbs.com (1:124/5016)

BY: Nigel Reed(1:124/5016)

Well, people need to chill the f*k down. It's a hobby. People do it for
the enjoyment. It's a dying hobby, nodes are doing down all the time.

Yes, we should try our best not to scare people off.


--- WWIV 5.8.0.3616
* Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (1:218/109)

Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
By: Carol Shenkenberger to Nigel Reed on Sun Dec 11 2022 13:56:32

It's not about zones really. It's about people who are reactive. Reactive
to insults or percieved ones.

Well, people need to chill the f*k down. It's a hobby. People do it for the enjoyment. It's a dying hobby, nodes are doing down all the time. This is not a good way to introduce new sysops into the world of BBSing.

Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, some people don't seem to be able to help themselves.

JD
--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
* Origin: FireCat Mobile (4:920/1.1)

Matt Munson wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

running the bbs on a gaming computer can be costly.

Not sure why you'd choose to; old laptops make wonderful BBSes. You can tuek them in most anywhere, they have good power management, so you can throttle
it down when idle, and they have a built-in UPS.

On another benefit, when my power was out for an extended period of time, I took the BBS to my office, went onto the guest wireless, and was able to download packets from my uplink and crashmail them to my downlinks.


... Don't break the silence
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

11 dic 2022 18:22, Dan Clough -> John Dovey:

"Irrational"? Haha, that's rich. What I claim is that TG and AS users trash the echos they post in, which is easily verified by just *LOOKING* at the echo with a "normal" mail reader. Mangled quoting, lack of context, lack of quoting, etc.

I am not going to comment about tg_bbs (for now), but just a clarification about AfterShock: the mangled quoting issue, that only happened in some cases (if there were useless LF chars in the replied-to message), was fixed in version 1.6.12.

If you find any other issue related to AfterShock, please let us know (with an example or some info) so that we can report it to the developer.

Carlos

--- AfterShock/Android 1.7.1
* Origin: cyb mobile test point (2:341/234.1234)

Hello Carol,

The troll says what?

GET SOME HEARING AIDS.

The troll says what?

Nick

Agreed. Lee Lofaso is a total troll. Always has been. don't worry to much
about it though, everyone knows it.

We are all trolls.
And that is the beauty of Fidonet.
However, one thing must be made clear.
There is only one supertroll.
And like the highlander of old told us,
so many centuries ago -

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

For Life,
Lee

--
Because not everyone likes licorice

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Hello Kurt Weiske!

** On Monday 12.12.22 - 06:01, Kurt Weiske wrote to Matt Munson:

...and they have a built-in UPS.

But it's getting increasingly expensive to replace oem
batteries from ancient laptops.

On another benefit, when my power was out for an extended period of time..

Wow. Dedication, or desperation? :D Resourcefulness for
sure!


--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

Carlos Navarro wrote to Dan Clough <=-

11 dic 2022 18:22, Dan Clough -> John Dovey:

"Irrational"? Haha, that's rich. What I claim is that TG and AS users trash the echos they post in, which is easily verified by just *LOOKING* at the echo with a "normal" mail reader. Mangled quoting, lack of context, lack of quoting, etc.

I am not going to comment about tg_bbs (for now), but just a
clarification about AfterShock: the mangled quoting issue, that
only happened in some cases (if there were useless LF chars in
the replied-to message), was fixed in version 1.6.12.

Well it sure is good that you can at least *acknowledge* that there was
an issue, and I thank you for looking into that and getting it
corrected. I have to wonder if some of the other folks in this thread
are seeing your messages, since they seem to think I'm "irrational"
about pointing it out; or, even more strangely, can't see it for
themselves.

Yeah, I'm talking about you, John Dovey.

If you find any other issue related to AfterShock, please let us
know (with an example or some info) so that we can report it to
the developer.

I will do that.


... All the easy problems have been solved.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Rob Swindell wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

I live in a house with 2 kids who leave lights on consistently. My BBS, running on an old laptop, is a rounding error in my electrical bill. It's nice to fly under the radar. :)

Not using LED bulbs? :-)

Now, most of them are - it's getting difficult to find incandescent bulbs
any more.

I replaced some fluorescent bulbs recently and found LED tubes - they're the same form factor, but inside are a line of LEDs. They lightg up quickly and don't flicker like fluorescents do.


... Convert a melodic element into a rhythmic element
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

August Abolins wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

...and they have a built-in UPS.

But it's getting increasingly expensive to replace oem
batteries from ancient laptops.

Not IBM Thinkpads. The trick is to stick with corporate brand lines. A Dell Optiplex or a Thinkpad should have a good market - I found a new battery for
a 10 year-old Thinkpad recently.

On another benefit, when my power was out for an extended period of time..

Wow. Dedication, or desperation? :D Resourcefulness for
sure!

A little of both - I had to go into work anyways, and I'm a regional coordinator for Fidonet, so I had a region worth of sysops waiting on mail packets.


... Consider different fading systems
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Well it sure is good that you can at least *acknowledge* that there was
an issue, and I thank you for looking into that and getting it
corrected.

At least Carlos did something constructive. All you did was
chirp like Chicken Little and wanted all smartphone usage to
stop.

I have to wonder if some of the other folks in this thread
are seeing your messages, since they seem to think I'm "irrational"
about pointing it out; or, even more strangely, can't see it for themselves.

Your rant did come across as irrational and unsupported. ;)

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

August Abolins wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Well it sure is good that you can at least *acknowledge* that there was
an issue, and I thank you for looking into that and getting it
corrected.

At least Carlos did something constructive. All you did was
chirp like Chicken Little and wanted all smartphone usage to
stop.

My chirping was what brought the issue to light, so it could be
corrected. I'd call that constructive, too, even if you didn't
personally like it. That's *your* problem.

I have to wonder if some of the other folks in this thread
are seeing your messages, since they seem to think I'm "irrational"
about pointing it out; or, even more strangely, can't see it for themselves.

Your rant did come across as irrational and unsupported. ;)

So, you're saying that a problem which was pointed out, and subsequently corrected, was "irrational and unsupported". Right. That makes a lot
of sense. Sure.

The only reason any "ranting" was even required was that you (and
others) would not acknowledge an OBVIOUS flaw, even though it was right
in front of you the whole time. NONE of that is just my opinion, it was
all simple facts, easily verified by anyone, and right there in public
for all to see. You all just didn't want to admit there was an issue
for reasons which escape me. Let me know if you have a better
explanation, and if not..... STFU.



... Apathy Error: Strike any key...or none, for that matter.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

I have to wonder if some of the other folks in this thread
are seeing your messages, since they seem to think I'm "irrational" AA>DC> about pointing it out; or, even more strangely, can't see it for
themselves.

Your rant did come across as irrational and unsupported. ;)

Thank you <insert appropriate superior being who is expected to solve everything by praying to him/her/it (*) but in reality it's just nature and physics>, I'm not alone in the universe.....

\%/@rd

(*) encircle which is appropriate

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

My chirping was what brought the issue to light, so it could be
corrected. I'd call that constructive, too, even if you didn't
personally like it. That's *your* problem.

No.. it was Carlos that noticed that LFs in some messages
potentially exacerbated a reply issue. The phone apps
themselves were not the problem. You didn't provided anything
noteworthy except your sky-is-flling-with-smartphone-apps rant.

Your rant did come across as irrational and unsupported. ;)

So, you're saying that a problem which was pointed out, and subsequently corrected, was "irrational and unsupported". Right. That makes a lot
of sense. Sure.

Your rant was the irrational part, not the problem that Carlos
discovered. ;) All you did was proclaim that Tg is broken,
and then you shifted to Aftershock is broken, and you even
targeted the users of those interfaces to cease and desist.

..You all just didn't want to admit there was an issue for
reasons which escape me. Let me know if you have a better
explanation, and if not..... STFU.

Not true. We asked for verifiable info. You provided none.
Most FTN messages looked good most of the time.

Meanwhile the user with the initials RF on your system still
continues to use a non-initial quote setting on YOUR system and
that counters to one of your complaints that some messages in
LITRPG didn't have "proper quoting". And THAT problem is
originating at your system. ;)

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

Well it sure is good that you can at least *acknowledge* that there was an issue, and I thank you for looking into that and getting it
corrected. I have to wonder if some of the other folks in this thread are seeing your messages, since they seem to think I'm "irrational"
about pointing it out; or, even more strangely, can't see it for themselves.

Yeah, I'm talking about you, John Dovey.

When we were exploring the reasons and extent of the problem, you insisted on more than one occasion that it was "proof" of the TG gateway being at fault, so yes. I stand by my irrational comment.

GFY

JD
--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
* Origin: FireCat Mobile (4:920/1.1)

John Dovey wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Well it sure is good that you can at least *acknowledge* that there was
an issue, and I thank you for looking into that and getting it
corrected. I have to wonder if some of the other folks in this thread
are seeing your messages, since they seem to think I'm "irrational"
about pointing it out; or, even more strangely, can't see it for themselves.

Yeah, I'm talking about you, John Dovey.

When we were exploring the reasons and extent of the problem,

So, you *ALSO* admit that there was a problem. Yes, the problem that
*I* pointed out. Thanks.

you insisted on more than one occasion that it was "proof" of the
TG gateway being at fault, so yes.

Wrong. That's a lie. I never ONCE said anything about any "gateway", I claimed that it was the TG/AS applications that were the source of the problem. Turns out I was right. Did you miss where Carlos said that
somebody had corrected the "extra LF" issue in a new release of one of
those apps? Selective reading perhaps? Can't admit you were wrong?

I stand by my irrational comment.

Which one? Nearly all of your comments are irrational.

GFY

Oh, that's nice. I won't stoop to your level.

Game. Set. Match.



... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

15 Dec 2022 08:22, you wrote to Dan Clough:

Meanwhile the user with the initials RF on your system still
continues to use a non-initial quote setting on YOUR system and
that counters to one of your complaints that some messages in
LITRPG didn't have "proper quoting". And THAT problem is
originating at your system. ;)

That's not a problem. Quoting without initials is fine too.

Carlos

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)

13 Dec 2022 20:56, you wrote to me:

Well it sure is good that you can at least *acknowledge* that there
was an issue, and I thank you for looking into that and getting it
corrected.

You're welcome. Just trying to help improve it now that its developer is working on it again after some years.

I have to wonder if some of the other folks in this
thread are seeing your messages, since they seem to think I'm
"irrational" about pointing it out; or, even more strangely, can't see
it for themselves.

I wouldn't say you're "irrational". But I think you're wrong when you mix AfterShock and tg_BBS as if they were the same thing, just because both are mostly used on mobile devices.

AfterShock is a "normal" mail reader, a FTN package just like e.g. FrontDoor/APX or WinPoint, but for Android.

The Telegram BBS/gateway is something completely different thing that, I agree, has some issues. Some of them can be fixed (I've reported one recently), but others... not sure.

If you find any other issue related to AfterShock, please let us
know (with an example or some info) so that we can report it to
the developer.

I will do that.

Great.

BTW I've noticed that your editor has issues with quoting: it doesn't append the ">" to previously quoted text.
See your message, the one I'm replying to:

=== Cut ===

"Irrational"? Haha, that's rich. What I claim is that TG and AS

=== /Cut ===

It should have been:

=== Cut ===

"Irrational"? Haha, that's rich. What I claim is that TG and AS

=== /Cut ===

Carlos

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)

Carlos Navarro wrote to Dan Clough <=-

13 Dec 2022 20:56, you wrote to me:

Well it sure is good that you can at least *acknowledge* that there
was an issue, and I thank you for looking into that and getting it
corrected.

You're welcome. Just trying to help improve it now that its
developer is working on it again after some years.

Glad to hear.

I have to wonder if some of the other folks in this
thread are seeing your messages, since they seem to think I'm
"irrational" about pointing it out; or, even more strangely, can't see
it for themselves.

I wouldn't say you're "irrational". But I think you're wrong when
you mix AfterShock and tg_BBS as if they were the same thing,
just because both are mostly used on mobile devices.

Perhaps I did lump them both into the same category. I'll be sure to
watch for that in future.

AfterShock is a "normal" mail reader, a FTN package just like
e.g. FrontDoor/APX or WinPoint, but for Android.

Ack.

The Telegram BBS/gateway is something completely different thing
that, I agree, has some issues. Some of them can be fixed (I've
reported one recently), but others... not sure.

Okay.

BTW I've noticed that your editor has issues with quoting: it
doesn't append the ">" to previously quoted text. See your
message, the one I'm replying to:

=== Cut ===

"Irrational"? Haha, that's rich. What I claim is that TG and AS

=== /Cut ===

It should have been:

=== Cut ===

"Irrational"? Haha, that's rich. What I claim is that TG and AS

=== /Cut ===

Yes, I see that. It (MultiMail) does do the first quote, but indeed
does not "increment" the quoting on later replies. I will report that
on the git project for this software, and hopefully the author will take
note and correct.

Thanks for your reply.


... Pros are those who do their jobs well, even when they don't feel like it. === MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

John,

Yeah, I'm talking about you, John Dovey.

When we were exploring the reasons and extent of the problem, you
insisted on more than one occasion that it was "proof" of the TG gateway being at fault, so yes. I stand by my irrational comment.

Dan just inspired me to formulate the 22nd law:

"When you have nothing to say, then agreeing with the last speaker,
gives you nevertheless the last word"

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20220519
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Carlos Navarro wrote to Dan Clough <=-

=== Cut ===

"Irrational"? Haha, that's rich. What I claim is that TG and AS

=== /Cut ===

It should have been:

=== Cut ===

"Irrational"? Haha, that's rich. What I claim is that TG and AS

=== /Cut ===

Since "DC" is "Dan Clough," aren't they both correct?

I am using the latest MultiMail release (or close to it!) and that is how
it applied the quotes to your message... "CN>" is you, and "DC>" is Dan.

Mike

... Computer Hacker wanted. Must have own axe.
--- MultiMail/DOS
* Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)

15 Dec 2022 15:27, you wrote to me:

Since "DC" is "Dan Clough," aren't they both correct?

I am using the latest MultiMail release (or close to it!) and that is
how it applied the quotes to your message... "CN>" is you, and "DC>"
is Dan.

Check Dan's message to me dated 13 Dec 2022 20:56 (MSGID: 4614.fido_fn_sysop@1:123/115 27fe86f8)

It should be "DC>>", not "DC>".

Carlos

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)

15 Dec 2022 15:46, you wrote to me:

Yes, I see that. It (MultiMail) does do the first quote, but indeed
does not "increment" the quoting on later replies. I will report that
on the git project for this software, and hopefully the author will
take note and correct.

Great. I just saw you created an issue on the repo. ;-)

Carlos

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)

Carlos Navarro wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Yes, I see that. It (MultiMail) does do the first quote, but indeed
does not "increment" the quoting on later replies. I will report that
on the git project for this software, and hopefully the author will
take note and correct.

Great. I just saw you created an issue on the repo. ;-)

Yes; hopefully the author is responsive.



... Press any key to continue or any other key to quit
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.15-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

BY: Kurt Weiske(1:218/700)

Not sure why you'd choose to; old laptops make wonderful BBSes. You can tuek
them in most anywhere, they have good power management, so you can
throttle
it down when idle, and they have a built-in UPS.

I would love to run it under a raspberry pi. I turn off my monitor and turn off other appliances to neutralize the energy costs in my room.


--- WWIV 5.8.0.3616
* Origin: Inland Utopia BBS * iutopia.duckdns.org:2023 (1:218/109)

Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Kurt Weiske <=-

Well, Gas heat (HVAC so electrical blower), my bills are/were about 75$
a month in winter. Right now on sunny days or middling cloudy, I
generate much more than I consume. It was only turned on on 29Nov and this season is pretty cloudy here. Cant really tell but suspect bill
will be 25$ or so? (partial month and only 3 clear days).

I was just telling the story of setting up my BBS back in 1991. I had a 286 with 2 32MB drives. I was worried about how it would affect my utility bill.

I lived in a studio apartment in a 1920s art deco-esque building in San Francisco. We had steam heat for free run off of a central boiler with a radiator that heated the space up wonderfully.

My first bill went up from $16/month to $20/month.

Those were the days...


... Imagine the music as a set of disconnected events
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Hello Alan!

08 Nov 22 19:19, you wrote to Nick Andre:

Allen Prunty was the last elected moderator of this area. I don't know what has become of him but I don't think he had any probationary
sysops hanging around.

He is more focused on fighting his cancer battle and his diabetes. I did also offer to pay one of his medications.

Matt


--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (1:218/109)

Hello Nick!

09 Nov 22 08:26, you wrote to Nigel Reed:

When I started my BBS, one of my aims was to be connected to
anything and everything I could. This last month I've dropped a
lot of networks. All of Gerts (Familynet, STN, Linuxnet, Gatornet,
etc), Starnet and Sportsnet shut shop as did combatnet. This is
something I do agree on. There's too many

I was the same way when I started in late '93... early '94. Nowadays
there is too much supply, not enough demand. Its tempting to drop all
of them here.

22 years ago, we had the posters to justify all those othernets. I had like 6-8 from the USA/CAN and 2-3 from the UK back in those glory days.

Matt


--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Inland Utopia Mail Center (1:218/109)

On 09 Dec 22 22:45:54, Matt Munson said the following to Nick Andre:

22 years ago, we had the posters to justify all those othernets. I had like 6-8 from the USA/CAN and 2-3 from the UK back in those glory days.

I was one of the first boards in my area at the time to have Internet email access via nightly long distance mailer calls to a UUCP system in Toronto. Then there was Usenet groups via another system in Montreal. And having to chip in for the Planet Connect fido-hub in Net 252.

My favourite was watching all the Lord and Tradewars addicts slam my board exactly at midnight every night to play their turns. Hilarious...

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Nick Andre wrote to Matt Munson <=-

My favourite was watching all the Lord and Tradewars addicts slam my
board exactly at midnight every night to play their turns. Hilarious...

Those were the days. :)




... The number you have dailed...Nine-one-one...has been changed.
--- MultiMail/DOS
* Origin: possumso.fsxnet.nz * SSH:2122/telnet:24/ftelnet:80 (1:2320/107)

Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
By: Dan Clough to Carol Shenkenberger on Sun Dec 11 2022 06:28 pm

Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Re: Re: Bad behaviour not wanted.
By: Dan Clough to August Abolins on Thu Nov 17 2022 07:54 am

complete and utter clusterf**k. Effectively not readable
due to format mangling, lack of quoting, and general
stupidity.

You keep ignoring the fact that your first instance of a
complaint in LITRGP was based on a quoting issue due to
Aftershock, and not Tg. I agree with your latter point though;
since your participation, stupidity has emerged.

I don't know (or care) what Aftershock is, and either way, whether it's that or TG, or both, the end result is: The echo is trashed and basically un-useable by those using "traditional" Fidonet software / message reading tools. Your claim that I'm stupid is just sour grapes
at being called out on it. Anyone can see that I'm telling the truth by simply trying to read messages in that group. It's that simple, simpleton.

Dan, can you tell me why my ASIAN_LINK never had that? We were
in the first few, and we welcome Telegram users. There have been
no issues otherthan a few *early* ones that caused odd tear
lines. They did not affectoperations and were quickly patched by
Stas.

Have you considered checking/reading echomail more often than once a
month? I've been all through this and don't feel like re-hashing it yet again. Read the complete thread.

... All the easy problems have been solved.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52

Why should I Dan? If you can't explain it, then it never happened.

xxcarol
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
* Origin: Shenk's Wandering Star (1:275/1000)

Carol Shenkenberger wrote to Dan Clough <=-

complete and utter clusterf**k. Effectively not readable
due to format mangling, lack of quoting, and general
stupidity.

You keep ignoring the fact that your first instance of a
complaint in LITRGP was based on a quoting issue due to
Aftershock, and not Tg. I agree with your latter point though;
since your participation, stupidity has emerged.

I don't know (or care) what Aftershock is, and either way, whether it's that or TG, or both, the end result is: The echo is trashed and basically un-useable by those using "traditional" Fidonet software / message reading tools. Your claim that I'm stupid is just sour grapes
at being called out on it. Anyone can see that I'm telling the truth by simply trying to read messages in that group. It's that simple, simpleton.

Dan, can you tell me why my ASIAN_LINK never had that? We were
in the first few, and we welcome Telegram users. There have been
no issues otherthan a few *early* ones that caused odd tear
lines. They did not affectoperations and were quickly patched by
Stas.

Have you considered checking/reading echomail more often than once a
month? I've been all through this and don't feel like re-hashing it yet again. Read the complete thread.

Why should I Dan?

Well, I guess so you can (maybe) understand what is being discussed
here. Duh.

If you can't explain it, then it never happened.

That's just it... I *HAVE* explained it, several times, in the
discussion thread. As I already said, if you'd read it you may see
that.

Well done on going *TWO* months this time before bothering to "catch up"
with reading echomail.



... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)