Hey Johann!

<Esc>:read /proc/version
Linux version 6.6.5 (root@bitskii) (gcc (GCC) 13.2.0, GNU ld (GNU Binutils) 2.41) #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Sat Dec 9 09:24:54 UTC 2023

Life is good,
Maurice

o- -o o- -o -o -o -o -o o- o- o- o- o- o- o- o- /) (\ /) (\ (\ (\ (\ (\ /) /) /) /) /) /) /) /) ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Fidonet 4K - You load sixteen penguins and what do you get?
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.21(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: One of us @ (1:153/7001.2989)

Hello Maurice!

09 Dec 2023 09:36, Maurice Kinal wrote to Johann Wolfgang von Goethe:

Linux version 6.6.5 (root@bitskii) (gcc (GCC) 13.2.0, GNU ld (GNU Binutils) 2.41) #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Sat Dec 9 09:24:54 UTC 2023

prepare for kernel.org mainline, then you dont have multiarch anymore, either you need 32bit only or not :)

so now kernel.org have final a kernel for alpha'arch with pure 64bit only

userland have disabled 32bit long time ago in gentoo


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/6.6.13-gentoo-dist (x86_64))
* Origin: gopher://fido.junc.eu/ (2:230/0)

Hey Benny!

prepare for kernel.org mainline, then you dont have multiarch
anymore, either you need 32bit only or not :)

'or not' sounds like what I've been doing for the last 15-20 years or so.

so now kernel.org have final a kernel for alpha'arch with pure
64bit only

x86_64 pure 64bit for ages. This is nothing new.

userland have disabled 32bit long time ago in gentoo

I think I beat them all to the punch. I could look it up, but going by my less than perfect memory I am guesstimating 2005 at the latest. Also c-only. Absolutely zero c++ source was harmed in the making. Roughly 128M for the entire development 'distribution' (gcc-4 and friends).

Those were the days my friend.

Life is good,
Maurice

o- o- o- -o -o -o o- -o o- o- -o o- o- o- o- o- /) /) /) (\ (\ (\ /) (\ /) /) (\ /) /) /) /) /) ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Fidonet 4K - Sweet Sixteen Penguins of the Apocalypse.
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.21(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: One of us @ (1:153/7001.2989)

Hello Maurice!

21 Jan 2024 04:07, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

Hey Benny!

prepare for kernel.org mainline, then you dont have multiarch
anymore, either you need 32bit only or not :)

'or not' sounds like what I've been doing for the last 15-20 years or
so.

you miss my point, i have a 80286 in my gvp amiga harddisk controller, so i could use msdos, or maybe linux for 16 bit arch :)

so now kernel.org have final a kernel for alpha'arch with pure
64bit only

x86_64 pure 64bit for ages. This is nothing new.

for real user no, but api in 64bit kernels does not anymore emulate 32bit api, so in pratics not possible to run 32bit elf code anymore, 64bit will not see any change on it

userland have disabled 32bit long time ago in gentoo

I think I beat them all to the punch. I could look it up, but going
by my less than perfect memory I am guesstimating 2005 at the latest. Also c-only. Absolutely zero c++ source was harmed in the making. Roughly 128M for the entire development 'distribution' (gcc-4 and friends).

my 80286 in my gvp harddisk used amiga memory for the highmem part, std the card have 512kb on its own card, i woundered still today why it have not 1024kb, so it would be equal cool like a commodore 128 with reu 1750 ram expender :=)

gentoo gcc needs 4Gb ram to compile now, with 1Gb it does not work

Those were the days my friend.

8bit and 16bit hardware boards still lives on self made boards on facebook, i wonder why ?


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/6.6.13-gentoo-dist (x86_64))
* Origin: gopher://fido.junc.eu/ (2:230/0)

Hey Benny!

you miss my point

Business as usual. ;-)

i have a 80286 in my gvp amiga harddisk controller, so i could
use msdos

I suppose except it escapes me why anyone would willingly do that.

or maybe linux for 16 bit arch :)

What are you smoking over there? That was never possible as far as I am aware. minix would be the only real choice if one wishes to waste electicity for little to no reward. It's all abandonware for good reason.

64bit will not see any change on it

So in other words it matters little to nothing whether or not a 64 bit processor can emulate a lesser platform (32 bit) given nobody is noticing anyhow. Also where are you finding any REAL development on 32 bit platforms anymore? Speaking for myself, I was more than happy to create my very first 64 bit system using dual p3's which are 32 bit given at the time there was no distribution that was pure 64 bit at the time. It worked great once installed and booted on an actual x86_64 platform.

gentoo gcc needs 4Gb ram to compile now, with 1Gb it does not work

That doesn't surprise me. Although I am not a big fan of bloat, in this case both economics and available applications make's current development extremely attractive. Also when targetting a minimal system, it doesn't require 4Gb of ram to run ... unless we're talking firefox and other greedy applications that really don't have much meaningful to offer in return. gcc is worth the extra bytes given all it has to offer in return. These days that is a very rare trait and I for one am thankful for it.

8bit and 16bit hardware boards still lives on self made boards on facebook, i wonder why ?

I say they can keep them. They have diddley-squat.

Life is good,
Maurice

-o o- -o -o -o o- -o -o -o -o -o -o o- -o -o o-
(\ /) (\ (\ (\ /) (\ (\ (\ (\ (\ (\ /) (\ (\ /)
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Fidonet 4K - You load sixteen penguins and what do you get?
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.21(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: One of us @ (1:153/7001.2989)

you miss my point, i have a 80286 in my gvp amiga harddisk controller, so i co
d use msdos, or maybe linux for 16 bit arch :)

I don't think that linux will run on a 286, but minux might.

I was not aware that amiga HD controllers had 80286 chips on them. That is interesting. Would you be able to install an intel OS and still be able to also use your amiga processor to run an amiga os (like dual boot)?


* SLMR 2.1a * OPCODE: MWAG = Make Wild-Assed Guess
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Hello Mike!

22 Jan 24 09:20, you wrote to BENNY PEDERSEN:

I was not aware that amiga HD controllers had 80286 chips on them.
That is interesting. Would you be able to install an intel OS and
still be able to also use your amiga processor to run an amiga os
(like dual boot)?

Amiga HD controlers per see dont. They need extra hardware.


BridgeBoards, emulation support cards
BridgeBoards allow using IBM compatible hardware components in an Amiga. Emulation support cards give the
Amiga the extra hardware for the complete software emulation of other platforms.


http://amiga.resource.cx/dir/bridge



Stephen


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20231021
* Origin: Dragon's Lair ---:- dragon.vk3heg.net -:--- Prt: 6800 (3:633/280)

Hello Mike!

22 Jan 2024 09:20, Mike Powell wrote to BENNY PEDERSEN:

you miss my point, i have a 80286 in my gvp amiga harddisk controller,
so i co d use msdos, or maybe linux for 16 bit arch :)

I don't think that linux will run on a 286, but minux might.

+1

I was not aware that amiga HD controllers had 80286 chips on them.

its just a plugin card, its not installed at bougt time, so i have to pay extre for this, on the page it says emulation, while it is a real 286 onboard, hmm :=)

That is interesting. Would you be able to install an intel OS and still be
able to also use your amiga processor to run an amiga os (like dual boot)?

yes the 286 runs msdos perfektly fine, async with amiga at same time, if you have a z80 mbc, it would be like plug a uterm on that to see msdos screen on linux :=) (via usb cable)

i also have a atonce, with is a card to plugin on the 68000 amiga cpu, the pc286 is just one for gvp harddisk controller

it was cool at the time it existed, i just wonder if it could run fidonet software on the pc side of it, the amiga ram could be used in msdos as highmem, so no problem with this, i did not have networking, just amiga harddisk file shareing, eq northon command could move files from amiga to the virtual harddisk on the pc side, and visa versa


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/6.7.3-gentoo-dist (x86_64))
* Origin: gopher://fido.junc.eu/ (2:230/0)

Hello Benny!

04 Feb 24 07:38, you wrote to Mike Powell:

I don't think that linux will run on a 286, but minux might.

+1

Confirm, back in 1994 when I installed my first Slackware, I couldn't do it because I had a 286 and I bought a 386SX33. It could run Linux but was hell slow :D



Christian


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5--b20170303
* Origin: ----> SPARK BBS (2:292/2226)

Hey Christian!

386SX33. It could run Linux but was hell slow :D

Sounds very familiar except I already had the 386 booting to whatever version of dos with a 32-bit gcc port (djgpp). I opted for a dual boot system on there and bought a 486-33 for a pure Slackware 3.something-or-other install. That became my first linux hacking machine and was awesome in comparison to the 386. Next was a 486 Toshiba laptop whose graphics chip (Chips & Technology) put up a fight at first. A new custom compiled kernel fixed that nicely.

Het leven is goed,
Maurice

-o o- -o o-
(\ /) (\ /)
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
... Nearon nu cyningas ne caseras ne goldgiefan swylce iu wæron.
There are not now kings nor caesars nor gold-givers as there once were.
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.21(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint @ (2:280/464.113)

That is interesting. Would you be able to install an intel OS and still b
able to also use your amiga processor to run an amiga os (like dual boot)

yes the 286 runs msdos perfektly fine, async with amiga at same time, if you h
e a z80 mbc, it would be like plug a uterm on that to see msdos screen on linu
:=) (via usb cable)

Oh, I see. That would be neat.

it was cool at the time it existed, i just wonder if it could run fidonet soft
re on the pc side of it, the amiga ram could be used in msdos as highmem, so n
problem with this, i did not have networking, just amiga harddisk file sharein
eq northon command could move files from amiga to the virtual harddisk on the
c side, and visa versa

If the two "systems" could talk to each other, that might have been an easy
way to run the fido mailer on the PC side while still using the older amiga
BBS software.

Mike


* SLMR 2.1a * "I'd like to buy a schwa, Pat."
--- SBBSecho 3.14-Linux
* Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (1:2320/105)

Hello Maurice!

21 Jan 2024 17:51, Maurice Kinal wrote to Benny Pedersen:

you miss my point

Business as usual. ;-)

maybe

i have a 80286 in my gvp amiga harddisk controller, so i could
use msdos

I suppose except it escapes me why anyone would willingly do that.

i had hope you where amiga fellows in this years of developments where all we like to see if msdos was possible with amiga, pc market was at that time crap just like winCE :)

or maybe linux for 16 bit arch :)

What are you smoking over there?

its only allowed in holland ?

That was never possible as far as I
am aware.

google irc on commodore 64 then ?, yes c64 do irc, now in 2024 it do downloads from the internet, with help of a raspberry pi wifi board, that simply emulate a cassette drive

minix would be the only real choice if one wishes to waste
electicity for little to no reward. It's all abandonware for good reason.

minix was imho 8 bit not 16 ?

64bit will not see any change on it

So in other words it matters little to nothing whether or not a 64 bit

kernel 6.7.3 is now stable, so i upgraded :=)

processor can emulate a lesser platform (32 bit) given nobody is
noticing anyhow.

this is not possible on a 64bit kernel now, if you need 32bit support you will now need a older kernel that still can emulate the 32bit api in a 64bit kernel

Also where are you finding any REAL development on
32 bit platforms anymore?

is most not fortran now that compiles fine on 64bit ?, what about freepascal then ?

gcc is not arch specifik, so if it compiles it self it works :)

Speaking for myself, I was more than happy
to create my very first 64 bit system using dual p3's which are 32 bit given at the time there was no distribution that was pure 64 bit at
the time. It worked great once installed and booted on an actual
x86_64 platform.

p3 is dead like my ibm quad core pii :=)

a raspberry pi is faster and use less power, unless one need heating aswell :)

gentoo gcc needs 4Gb ram to compile now, with 1Gb it does not work

That doesn't surprise me. Although I am not a big fan of bloat, in
this case both economics and available applications make's current development extremely attractive.

i have giving the gentoo developpers a note on this, currently not fixed on there side to come up with a solution on low mem gcc compile at all

rust is posssible to install precompiled, but not gcc

Also when targetting a minimal

+1

system, it doesn't require 4Gb of ram to run ...

fido.junc..eu runs on only 1024M of mem, plenty of spare ram to run fidonet and my own vpn server, with my own root CA

unless we're talking
firefox and other greedy applications that really don't have much meaningful to offer in return.

it could maybe need less ram if not so much crappy homepages exists href="" and src="" waste to parsing it

gcc is worth the extra bytes given all
it has to offer in return. These days that is a very rare trait and I for one am thankful for it.

#metoo

8bit and 16bit hardware boards still lives on self made boards on
facebook, i wonder why ?

I say they can keep them. They have diddley-squat.

its a learning device


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/6.7.3-gentoo-dist (x86_64))
* Origin: gopher://fido.junc.eu/ (2:230/0)

Hello Stephen!

23 Jan 2024 10:48, Stephen Walsh wrote to Mike Powell:

Amiga HD controlers per see dont. They need extra hardware.

+1

BridgeBoards, emulation support cards
BridgeBoards allow using IBM compatible hardware components in an
Amiga. Emulation support cards give the
Amiga the extra hardware for the complete software emulation of other platforms.

bridge boards is zerro ii, while gvp harddisk is not

http://amiga.resource.cx/dir/bridge

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/pc286 is my reference

i don't think this is emulation if it have a 286 in real hardware, doh :)


Regards Benny

... too late to die young :)

--- Msged/LNX 6.1.2 (Linux/6.7.3-gentoo-dist (x86_64))
* Origin: gopher://fido.junc.eu/ (2:230/0)

Hey Benny!

pc market was at that time crap just like winCE :)

As well as VASTLY overpriced given what they offered in return. I never had anything to do with pc's back then - VAX/VMS was my thing at the time - but did observe that a 286 was nothing more than a very expensive calculator that didn't fit in one's pocket. You can quote me on that too. As for amigas I knew a few people who owned them but mostly for gaming. They reeally liked the graphics. My first pc came later when they started putting 32-bit processors on them.

What are you smoking over there?

its only allowed in holland ?

'It' is legal here.

help of a raspberry pi wifi board, that simply emulate a
cassette drive

Towards what end? Personally I'd go with an exabyte if wanting a tape drive which doesn't require any emulation. I'd think the above would be adding way too much drag to any system, old or new.

kernel 6.7.3 is now stable, so i upgraded :=)

:read !cat /proc/version | sed 's/^/ > /'

Linux version 6.7.3 (root@bitskii) (gcc (GCC) 13.2.0, GNU ld (GNU Binutils) 2.42) #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Thu Feb 1 14:10:32 UTC 2024

Looks good so far.

minix was imho 8 bit not 16 ?

16-bit. I've heard tales of it running on 286s and amigas. The opportunity to try it out never presented itself to me so I am just going by what I've heard. Also 16-bit processors never held any attraction to me personally.

currently not fixed on there side to come up with a solution on
low mem gcc compile at all

It hasn't been an issue here as none of my current machines (4) have less than 8G. They all have their own custom built gcc. As a rule I don't bother with any machine that can't take care of itself. So far this philosophy has served me well. This goes back to the first pc I owned which I managed to get a dos ported 32-bit gcc compiler running on. I used it to write my very own bbs with. I've been doing this for a long time now although now it is bashist instead of compiled.

I say they can keep them. They have diddley-squat.

its a learning device

What have we learned?

Life is good,
Maurice

o- -o -o o- -o o- -o -o o- -o o- o- o- o- o- o- /) (\ (\ /) (\ /) (\ (\ /) (\ /) /) /) /) /) /) ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Fidonet 4K - Sweet Sixteen Penguins of the Apocalypse.
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.25(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: One of us @ (1:153/7001.2989)