I would like to nominate Deon George (3:633/509) for another term.


Jay
RC12

... The trouble with facts is that there are so many of them
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240309
* Origin: Northern Realms (1:12/0)

Re: Nomination
By: Jay Harris to All on Sat Feb 01 2025 10:34 pm

Howdy,

I would like to nominate Deon George (3:633/509) for another term.

Thanks Jay, I accept the nomination.


...ëîåï
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (3:633/509)

Hello All,

I would like to nominate Andrew Leary (1:320/219) for another term.

Best regards,
Niels
RC29

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20220504
* Origin: The Millennium BBS - fido.joncheere.be (2:29/0)

Hello Niels!

02 Feb 25 11:38, you wrote to all:

I would like to nominate Andrew Leary (1:320/219) for another term.

Thank you; I accept the nomination.

Andrew

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: From the Desk of the FTSC Administrator (1:320/219)

Hi,

I also would like to nominate Andrew Leary (1:320/219).

Greetings,
Rudi

--- D'Bridge 4
* Origin: Light Station (2:292/140)

Re: Re: Nomination
By: Sean Rima to Oli on Sat Feb 08 2025 07:29 pm

Howdy,

+ 19:19 [6769] addr: 1:267/310@fidonet.org (n/a or busy)

in my binkd config file and this works. He is doing nothing wrong and in fact maybe more correct

More correct?

http://ftsc.org/docs/frl-1028.002


...ëîåï
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (3:633/509)

Hello deon!

09 Feb 25 16:14, you wrote to Sean Rima:

+ 19:19 [6769] addr: 1:267/310@fidonet.org (n/a or busy)

in my binkd config file and this works. He is doing nothing wrong
and in fact maybe more correct

More correct?

http://ftsc.org/docs/frl-1028.002

You are correct that this document indicates the domain part of an FTN address cannot exceed 8 characters, or contain characters other than lowercase letters, digits, or the three "safe" characters (- _ ~). This would seem to preclude using the extensions, as the period/dot character (.) is not permitted.

However, this document was a FidoNet Standards Proposal that was not promoted and published as a FidoNet Technical Standard. It is preserved in the FTSC reference library for information purposes only. While it is recommended to comply with the requirements set forth in this document, it is NOT required.

BinkD itself has long had functionality to work around problems caused by nodes specifying domain names improperly.

Andrew

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: From the Desk of the FTSC Administrator (1:320/219)

deon wrote to Sean Rima <=-

Re: Re: Nomination
By: Sean Rima to Oli on Sat Feb 08 2025 07:29 pm

Howdy,

+ 19:19 [6769] addr: 1:267/310@fidonet.org (n/a or busy)

in my binkd config file and this works. He is doing nothing wrong and
in
fact maybe more correct

More correct?

http://ftsc.org/docs/frl-1028.002

As Andrew beat me to it, but this is not a standard.

Sean

... A woman drove me to drink, and I never had the courtesy to thank her.

--- BBBS/LiR v4.10 Toy-7
* Origin: TCOB1: https/binkd/telnet binkd.rima.ie (2:263/1)

Hi Sean,

+ 19:19 [6769] addr: 1:267/310@fidonet.org (n/a or busy)

in my binkd config file and this works. He is doing nothing wrong
and in fact maybe more correct

More correct?
http://ftsc.org/docs/frl-1028.002

As Andrew beat me to it, but this is not a standard.

It doesn't matter if it's a standard. The *FTN* domain for FidoNet is "fidonet". There is no more correct or less correct way. It's binary. You use the correct FTN domain or don't.

Even binkd.cfg explains it:

# Aliases to support known *DNS* domain zones
# (some people mix up the terms "FTN domain" and "DNS internet domain")
domain fidonet.org alias-for fidonet
domain fidonet.net alias-for fidonet


* Origin: kakistocracy (2:280/464.47)

On <09 Feb, 10:40>, Sean Rima wrote to deon :

deon wrote to Sean Rima <=-

Re: Re: Nomination
By: Sean Rima to Oli on Sat Feb 08 2025 07:29 pm

Howdy,

+ 19:19 [6769] addr: 1:267/310@fidonet.org (n/a or busy)

in my binkd config file and this works. He is doing nothing wrong and
in
fact maybe more correct

More correct?

http://ftsc.org/docs/frl-1028.002

As Andrew beat me to it, but this is not a standard.

Sean

... A woman drove me to drink, and I never had the courtesy to thank her.

--- BBBS/LiR v4.10 Toy-7
* Origin: TCOB1: https/binkd/telnet binkd.rima.ie (2:263/1)

Hello,

I changed the domain to make it align with values and morals.

Thank you,

Jason Bock

--- ProBoard v2.32
* Origin: ProBoard WHQ - SiliconUnderground - siliconu.com (1:267/310)

On <09 Feb, 10:40>, Sean Rima wrote to deon :

deon wrote to Sean Rima <=-

Re: Re: Nomination
By: Sean Rima to Oli on Sat Feb 08 2025 07:29 pm

Howdy,

+ 19:19 [6769] addr: 1:267/310@fidonet.org (n/a or busy)

in my binkd config file and this works. He is doing nothing wrong and
in
fact maybe more correct

More correct?

http://ftsc.org/docs/frl-1028.002

As Andrew beat me to it, but this is not a standard.

Sean

... A woman drove me to drink, and I never had the courtesy to thank her.

--- BBBS/LiR v4.10 Toy-7
* Origin: TCOB1: https/binkd/telnet binkd.rima.ie (2:263/1)

Hello,

I changed the domain to make it align with values and morals.

Thank you,

Jason Bock

--- ProBoard v2.32
* Origin: ProBoard WHQ - SiliconUnderground - siliconu.com (1:267/310)

Hello Jason,

On Sunday February 09 2025 11:23, you wrote to Sean Rima:

@PID: ProBoard 2.32 J
@TID: FastEcho 1.46 43281
On <09 Feb, 10:40>, Sean Rima wrote to deon :

No MSGID
No REPLY
No TZUTC
No CHRS

I changed the domain to make it align with values and morals.

Thank you.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Nieuw Schnøørd (2:280/5555)

Re: Nomination
By: Andrew Leary to deon on Sun Feb 09 2025 01:10 am

Howdy,

BinkD itself has long had functionality to work around problems caused by nodes specifying domain names improperly.

And hence why I thought the original comment "more correct", isnt really "more correct".


...ëîåï
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (3:633/509)

Hello,

I'd like to nominate Tim Schattkowsky, 2:2/29

Thank you. :)

Ciao.
Fabio.
--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.6
* Origin: Mimac Rebirth Boss Mobile Point (2:335/364.3)

Hello everybody!

I hereby nominate Jason Bock (1:267/310) for a position as a Standing Member of the FTSC.

Thank you,

Andrew Leary
RC16

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: From the Desk of the New England Janitor (1:320/219)

On <08 Feb, 05:44>, Andrew Leary wrote to All :

Hello everybody!

I hereby nominate Jason Bock (1:267/310) for a position as a Standing Member
of the FTSC.

Thank you,

Andrew Leary
RC16

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: From the Desk of the New England Janitor (1:320/219)

Thank you for the nomination. I accept the nomination.

Thank you again,

Jason

--- ProBoard v2.32
* Origin: ProBoard WHQ - SiliconUnderground - siliconu.com (1:267/310)

On <08 Feb, 05:44>, Andrew Leary wrote to All :

Hello everybody!

I hereby nominate Jason Bock (1:267/310) for a position as a Standing Member
of the FTSC.

Thank you,

Andrew Leary
RC16

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: From the Desk of the New England Janitor (1:320/219)

Thank you for the nomination. I accept the nomination.

Thank you again,

Jason

--- ProBoard v2.32
* Origin: ProBoard WHQ - SiliconUnderground - siliconu.com (1:267/310)

Andrew wrote (2025-02-08):

Hello everybody!

I hereby nominate Jason Bock (1:267/310) for a position as a Standing Member of the FTSC.

Thank you,

Thanks but no thanks. He failed the basic competency test:

poll 1:267/310
$ -d 1:267/310@fidonet
+ 19:19 [6769] call to 1:267/310@fidonet
+ 19:19 [6769] outgoing session
- 19:19 [6769] SYS SiliconUnderground - ProBoard / FuNet WHQ
- 19:19 [6769] ZYZ Jason Bock
- 19:19 [6769] LOC Rochester, NY
- 19:19 [6769] NDL CM,IBN
- 19:19 [6769] TIME 2025/02/08 13:19:08 -5:00
- 19:19 [6769] VER Internet Rex 2.31 Win32 (binkp/1.1)
+ 19:19 [6769] addr: 1:267/310@fidonet.org (n/a or busy)
+ 19:19 [6769] addr: 1:1/101@fidonet.org (n/a or busy)
+ 19:19 [6769] addr: 1:267/311@fidonet.org (n/a or busy)
[....]
? 19:19 [6769] called 1:267/310@fidonet, but remote has no such AKA
+ 19:19 [6769] done (to 1:267/310@fidonet, failed, S/R: 0/0 (0/0 bytes))

But hey, at least you have just enough candidates for more years of nothing.

---
* Origin: No REPLY kludge - no reply (2:280/464.47)

Oli wrote to Andrew Leary <=-

I hereby nominate Jason Bock (1:267/310) for a position as a

Standing

Member of the FTSC.

Thank you,

Thanks but no thanks. He failed the basic competency test:

poll 1:267/310
$ -d 1:267/310@fidonet
+ 19:19 [6769] call to 1:267/310@fidonet
+ 19:19 [6769] outgoing session
- 19:19 [6769] SYS SiliconUnderground - ProBoard / FuNet WHQ
- 19:19 [6769] ZYZ Jason Bock
- 19:19 [6769] LOC Rochester, NY
- 19:19 [6769] NDL CM,IBN
- 19:19 [6769] TIME 2025/02/08 13:19:08 -5:00
- 19:19 [6769] VER Internet Rex 2.31 Win32 (binkp/1.1)
+ 19:19 [6769] addr: 1:267/310@fidonet.org (n/a or busy)
+ 19:19 [6769] addr: 1:1/101@fidonet.org (n/a or busy)
+ 19:19 [6769] addr: 1:267/311@fidonet.org (n/a or busy)
[....]
? 19:19 [6769] called 1:267/310@fidonet, but remote has no such AKA
+ 19:19 [6769] done (to 1:267/310@fidonet, failed, S/R: 0/0 (0/0 bytes))

But hey, at least you have just enough candidates for more years of nothing.

I have domain fido alias-for fidonet
domain fidorus alias-for fidonet
domain fido7 alias-for fidonet
domain fidonet.org alias-for fidonet domain fidonet.net alias-for fidonet i
in my binkd config file and this works. He is doing nothing wrong and in fact maybe more correct

Sean


... BBBS: https://binkd.rima.ie

--- BBBS/LiR v4.10 Toy-7
* Origin: There Can Only Be 1 (2:263/1)

Oli wrote to Andrew Leary <=-

I hereby nominate Jason Bock (1:267/310) for a position as a Standing Member of the FTSC.

Thanks but no thanks. He failed the basic competency test:

poll 1:267/310
$ -d 1:267/310@fidonet
+ 19:19 [6769] call to 1:267/310@fidonet
+ 19:19 [6769] outgoing session
- 19:19 [6769] SYS SiliconUnderground - ProBoard / FuNet WHQ
- 19:19 [6769] ZYZ Jason Bock
- 19:19 [6769] LOC Rochester, NY
- 19:19 [6769] NDL CM,IBN
- 19:19 [6769] TIME 2025/02/08 13:19:08 -5:00
- 19:19 [6769] VER Internet Rex 2.31 Win32 (binkp/1.1)
+ 19:19 [6769] addr: 1:267/310@fidonet.org (n/a or busy)
+ 19:19 [6769] addr: 1:1/101@fidonet.org (n/a or busy)
+ 19:19 [6769] addr: 1:267/311@fidonet.org (n/a or busy)
[....]
? 19:19 [6769] called 1:267/310@fidonet, but remote has no such AKA
+ 19:19 [6769] done (to 1:267/310@fidonet, failed, S/R: 0/0 (0/0
bytes))

Works for me:

BinkIT/2.41 invoked with options: -l 1:267/310
Attempting poll for node 1:267/310@fidonet
JSBinkP/4 callout to 1:267/310@fidonet started
Connecting to 1:267/310@fidonet at siliconu.com:24554
Peer version: Internet Rex 2.31 Win32
Peer ended their VER with " (binkp/1.1)" instead of the required " binkp/1.1", but we're assuming binkp 1.1 anyway
Authentication successful:
/sbbs/exec/binkit.js executed in 2.00 seconds

Maybe it's you that is mis-configured.



... I'd love to help you out. Which way did you come in?
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.52
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:135/115)

//Hello Fabio,//

on *05.02.25* at *18:01:49* You wrote in Area *FTSC_PUBLIC*
to *All* about *"Nomination"*.

Hello,

I'd like to nominate Tim Schattkowsky, 2:2/29

Thank you. I accept.

Regards,
Tim

--- WinPoint 415.0
* Origin: Original WinPoint Origin! (2:310/31.6)

MvdV> Hello Jason,
MvdV>
MvdV> On Sunday February 09 2025 11:23, you wrote to Sean Rima:
MvdV>
MvdV> JB> @PID: ProBoard 2.32 J
MvdV> JB> @TID: FastEcho 1.46 43281
MvdV> JB> On <09 Feb, 10:40>, Sean Rima wrote to deon :
MvdV>
MvdV> No MSGID
MvdV> No REPLY
MvdV> No TZUTC
MvdV> No CHRS
MvdV>
The software is rom the 90's. I am actually working on updating the message system with the correct standards. ;)

--- ProBoard v2.32
* Origin: ProBoard WHQ - SiliconUnderground - siliconu.com (1:267/310)

MvdV> Hello Jason,
MvdV>
MvdV> On Sunday February 09 2025 11:23, you wrote to Sean Rima:
MvdV>
MvdV> JB> @PID: ProBoard 2.32 J
MvdV> JB> @TID: FastEcho 1.46 43281
MvdV> JB> On <09 Feb, 10:40>, Sean Rima wrote to deon :
MvdV>
MvdV> No MSGID
MvdV> No REPLY
MvdV> No TZUTC
MvdV> No CHRS
MvdV>
The software is rom the 90's. I am actually working on updating the message system with the correct standards. ;)

--- ProBoard v2.32
* Origin: ProBoard WHQ - SiliconUnderground - siliconu.com (1:267/310)

Jason,

MvdV> No MSGID
MvdV> No REPLY
MvdV> No TZUTC
MvdV> No CHRS

The software is rom the 90's. I am actually working on updating the message system with the correct standards. ;)

One man's standard is another man's error.

Are all these covered by standards?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Hej Ward!

One man's standard is another man's error.

Are all these covered by standards?

Two of them are covered by corrupted standards; the TZUTC and the CHRS kludges. The TZUTC kludge would require very little to make it compatible with timezone offsets while the CHRS kludge is almost totally a joke as far as standards go.

Het leven is goed,
Maurice

-o o- o- o-
(\ /) /) /)
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
... Sterk zoals Bull, Smart Like Tractor.
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.37(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint @ (2:280/464.113)

Jason,

MvdV> No MSGID
MvdV> No REPLY
MvdV> No TZUTC
MvdV> No CHRS

The software is rom the 90's. I am actually working on updating the message system with the correct standards. ;)

One man's standard is another man's error.

Are all these covered by standards?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Ward,

I do not think ProBoard followed any standards as there are a ton of proprietary libraries to work around different tasks. IT is somewhat clean code until you get into the libraries.

I am working on it. ;)

-Jason

--- ProBoard v2.32
* Origin: ProBoard WHQ - SiliconUnderground - siliconu.com (1:267/310)

Jason,

MvdV> No MSGID
MvdV> No REPLY
MvdV> No TZUTC
MvdV> No CHRS

The software is rom the 90's. I am actually working on updating the message system with the correct standards. ;)

One man's standard is another man's error.

Are all these covered by standards?

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Ward,

I do not think ProBoard followed any standards as there are a ton of proprietary libraries to work around different tasks. IT is somewhat clean code until you get into the libraries.

I am working on it. ;)

-Jason

--- ProBoard v2.32
* Origin: ProBoard WHQ - SiliconUnderground - siliconu.com (1:267/310)

09 Feb 2025 23:20, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

MvdV>> No MSGID
MvdV>> No REPLY
MvdV>> No TZUTC
MvdV>> No CHRS
MvdV>>

The software is rom the 90's. I am actually working on updating the message system with the correct standards. ;)

Nice. Good luck! ;-)

I suggest you start with supporting MSGID/REPLY (FTS-0009), as they are the most important kludges, and leave the others for later.

Carlos

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada (2:341/234.1)

09 Feb 2025 23:20, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

MvdV>> No MSGID
MvdV>> No REPLY
MvdV>> No TZUTC
MvdV>> No CHRS
MvdV>>

The software is rom the 90's. I am actually working on updating the message system with the correct standards. ;)

Nice. Good luck! ;-)

I suggest you start with supporting MSGID/REPLY (FTS-0009), as they are the most important kludges, and leave the others for later.

Carlos

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada (2:341/234.1)

Carlos,

I agree.

Thank you,

Jason

--- ProBoard v2.32
* Origin: ProBoard WHQ - SiliconUnderground - siliconu.com (1:267/310)

Hello Ward!

10 Feb 25 21:23, you wrote to Jason Bock:

MvdV> No MSGID
MvdV> No REPLY
MvdV> No TZUTC
MvdV> No CHRS

The software is rom the 90's. I am actually working on updating
the message system with the correct standards. ;)

One man's standard is another man's error.

Are all these covered by standards?

MSGID and REPLY are defined in FTS-9 (http://ftsc.org/docs/fts-0009.001)
TZUTC is defined in FTS-4008 (http://ftsc.org/docs/fts-4008.002)
CHRS is defined in FTS-5003 (http://ftsc.org/docs/fts-5003.001)

So yes, all of the mentioned control paragraphs are covered by published FidoNet Technical Standards.

Andrew

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: From the Desk of the FTSC Administrator (1:320/219)

Hello Maurice!

10 Feb 25 21:20, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

Two of them are covered by corrupted standards; the TZUTC and the CHRS kludges. The TZUTC kludge would require very little to make it
compatible with timezone offsets while the CHRS kludge is almost
totally a joke as far as standards go.

Keep in mind that FidoNet Technical Standards cover current practice in FidoNet. The FTSC does not have the power to revise standards and compel software authors to comply with such revisions. In many cases, software used in FidoNet is abandoned by its authors, source code is lost, or other circumstances that preclude changes being made.

Regards,

Andrew

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: From the Desk of the FTSC Administrator (1:320/219)

09 Feb 2025 23:20, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

MvdV>> No MSGID
MvdV>> No REPLY
MvdV>> No TZUTC
MvdV>> No CHRS
MvdV>>

The software is rom the 90's. I am actually working on updating the message system with the correct standards. ;)

Nice. Good luck! ;-)

I suggest you start with supporting MSGID/REPLY (FTS-0009), as they are the most important kludges, and leave the others for later.

Carlos

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada (2:341/234.1)

Carlos,

I agree.

Thank you,

Jason

--- ProBoard v2.32
* Origin: ProBoard WHQ - SiliconUnderground - siliconu.com (1:267/310)

Hey Andrew!

Keep in mind that FidoNet Technical Standards cover current
practice in FidoNet.

No they don't. The current usage of the packed MSG format is not reflected by any currently published standard. It hasn't for decades now.

Life is good,
Maurice

-o o- o- o- o- o- o- o- -o o- -o o- o- -o -o -o
(\ /) /) /) /) /) /) /) (\ /) (\ /) /) (\ (\ (\
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ... Fidonet 4K - Sweet Sixteen Penguins of the Apocalypse.
--- GNU bash, version 5.2.37(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
* Origin: One of us @ (1:153/7001.2989)

//Hello Fabio,//

on *05.02.2025* at *18:01:49* You wrote in Area *FTSC_PUBLIC*
to *All* about *"Nomination"*.

Hello,

I'd like to nominate Tim Schattkowsky, 2:2/29

I accept.

Regards,
Tim

--- WinPoint 415.0
* Origin: Original WinPoint Origin! (2:2/29)

Hi Tim,

On 2025-02-26 16:49:30, you wrote to Fabio Bizzi:

I accept.

--- WinPoint 415.0
* Origin: Original WinPoint Origin! (2:2/29)

Hmmm, configuring a node number into a point program, doesn't really make you a "node of good standing"... :-(


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.4-B20240523
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello Tim,

On Wednesday February 26 2025 16:49, you wrote to Fabio Bizzi:

@MSGID: 2:2/29 37c543d1
@REPLY: 2:335/364.3 67a3a78d
@CHRS: IBMPC 2

^^^^^

From FTS-5003:

5. Obsolete indentifiers
------------------------

These indentifiers must not be used when creating new messages.
The following only applies to processing messages that were
created using old software.

Since the "IBMPC" identifier, initially used to indicate IBM
codepage 437, eventually evolved into identifying "any IBM
codepage", there exists in some implementations an additional
control line, "CODEPAGE", identifying the messages codepage:

"^ACODEPAGE: xxx

This use is deprecated in favour of the "CPxxx" identifiers
defined above. If found in incoming messages, however, it should
be used as an override of the "CHRS: IBMPC" identifier.



Note the words "MUST NOT" in the first line of this paragraph. So when will you make your software FS-5003 complient?


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Nieuw Schnøørd (2:280/5555)

Hello Wilfred,

On Wednesday February 26 2025 18:29, you wrote to Tim Schattkowsky:

--- WinPoint 415.0
* Origin: Original WinPoint Origin! (2:2/29)

Hmmm, configuring a node number into a point program, doesn't really
make you a "node of good standing"... :-(

Indeed. Winpoint can not accept incoming calls. 2:2/29 is a fake node.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Nieuw Schnøørd (2:280/5555)

Re: Re: Nomination
By: Tim Schattkowsky to Fabio Bizzi on Wed Feb 26 2025 04:49 pm

//Hello Fabio,//

on *05.02.2025* at *18:01:49* You wrote in Area *FTSC_PUBLIC*
to *All* about *"Nomination"*.

Hello,

I'd like to nominate Tim Schattkowsky, 2:2/29

I accept.

Acknowledged. And yes, we got the conforming acknowledgement late, but we all saw the acknowledgement before and now Tim has demonstrated that he has the knowledge and ability to comply with the rules of the election. Thank you Tim.

-Rob
FTSC Standing Member and Stand-in Election Coordinator
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: Re: Nomination
By: Wilfred van Velzen to Tim Schattkowsky on Wed Feb 26 2025 06:29 pm

Hi Tim,

On 2025-02-26 16:49:30, you wrote to Fabio Bizzi:

I accept.

--- WinPoint 415.0
* Origin: Original WinPoint Origin! (2:2/29)

Hmmm, configuring a node number into a point program, doesn't really make you a "node of good standing"... :-(

Isn't a "point node" still a node? And seriously, what does this have to do with Tim's ability to review and contribute technical documents? It doesn't.
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Hi Rob,

On 2025-02-26 11:50:53, you wrote to Tim Schattkowsky:

I accept.

Acknowledged. And yes, we got the conforming acknowledgement late, but we all
saw the acknowledgement before and now Tim has demonstrated that he has the
knowledge and ability to comply with the rules of the election.

Hardly...


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.4-B20240523
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi Rob,

On 2025-02-26 11:54:19, you wrote to me:

--- WinPoint 415.0
* Origin: Original WinPoint Origin! (2:2/29)

Hmmm, configuring a node number into a point program, doesn't really make
you a "node of good standing"... :-(

Isn't a "point node" still a node?

A "point node"? Since when is that a thing?

And seriously, what does this have to do with Tim's ability to review
and contribute technical documents? It doesn't.

That's not a written down, in the election rules, requirement for being a candidate. Being a "node of good standing" is...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.4-B20240523
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

//Hello Michiel,//

on *26.02.2025* at *18:34:38* You wrote in Area *FTSC_PUBLIC*
to *Tim Schattkowsky* about *"Nomination"*.

MvdV> Hello Tim,

MvdV> On Wednesday February 26 2025 16:49, you wrote to Fabio Bizzi:

@MSGID: 2:2/29 37c543d1
@REPLY: 2:335/364.3 67a3a78d
@CHRS: IBMPC 2

MvdV> ^^^^^

MvdV> From FTS-5003:

MvdV> 5. Obsolete indentifiers
MvdV> ------------------------

MvdV> These indentifiers must not be used when creating new messages.
MvdV> The following only applies to processing messages that were
MvdV> created using old software.

MvdV> Since the "IBMPC" identifier, initially used to indicate IBM
MvdV> codepage 437, eventually evolved into identifying "any IBM
MvdV> codepage", there exists in some implementations an additional
MvdV> control line, "CODEPAGE", identifying the messages codepage:

MvdV> "^ACODEPAGE: xxx

MvdV> This use is deprecated in favour of the "CPxxx" identifiers
MvdV> defined above. If found in incoming messages, however, it should
MvdV> be used as an override of the "CHRS: IBMPC" identifier.



MvdV> Note the words "MUST NOT" in the first line of this paragraph. So when
MvdV> will you make your software FS-5003 complient?

Yes. I think we had this before. The failure of the FTSC to update the standards to reflect actual practice is indeed notable.

The FTSC was meant to describe and guide actual practice. Just by looking at this area we see clearly that in reality there is almost no CP437 and a busload if IBMPC ... and for a reason: Most existing infrastructure is expecting IBMPC. Thus, while WP has probably one of the broadest and most elaborate implementations of 5003 including anything from UTF-8 to krillic charsets, it does intentionally use a compatible setting for codepage 437 to get the users the best possible interoperability.

In science, things are simple: If there are two options, you just think about what happens when you choose either one and go with the better. Since in the best case, using CP437 makes the software behave as it would for IBMPC and in the worst case it may be unable to process the charset properly, the choice is easy.

The block warden manner in which breaking the existing infrastructure for no good reason is requested by some people here to feel mighty and important does in no way contribute to the technical advancement of Fidonet. One might call THAT pig-headed.

Also, I am baffled in general by some peoples behavior here. I would seriously say that it is probably hard to find people nowadays who still work on Fidonet software. WinPoint is there since 1996. And I do think some of you guys need serious help ...

Regards,
Tim

PS: Of course I continue to use my own Point software to write even as a Node. I have seen the usual editors. Enjoy ... Also, I dislike the bad CHARSET support in many of those things from the past millennium :)

--- WinPoint 415.0
* Origin: Original WinPoint Origin! (2:2/29)

On <26 Feb, 21:03>, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Rob Swindell :

Hi Rob,

On 2025-02-26 11:50:53, you wrote to Tim Schattkowsky:

I accept.

Acknowledged. And yes, we got the conforming acknowledgement late,

but we all

saw the acknowledgement before and now Tim has demonstrated that he

has the

knowledge and ability to comply with the rules of the election.

Hardly...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.4-B20240523
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Wilfred,

I do NOT know Tim, but I always like to look first at the situation and look at positives AND negatives.

After researching Tim, I see that he was an FTSC Standing Member, which his term ended 28 Mar 2024 and he has demonstrated that he understands the technology by writing point software (WinPoint). He may have been replying using his point software accidentally. I doubt it was intentional or malicious.

If the rules state that you must use a "real" fidonet address and not a point address, originally, then that is a negative, but he clearly understands what the purpose of this committee is. It looks like we need dedicated members,

Regardless, he is willing to participate in a skilled capacity and clearly understands the ask. People in this echo are mentioning that the FTSC is dead or useless unless people come together and participate.

Send Tim a netmail to his address and see what comes back.

We should all create an agenda and collaborate on those topics instead of a bunch of people being frustrated over many different things. I am coming into this with very little initial visibility.

I took being nominated as an honor. Some may laugh at my comment, but I have had a passion for fidonet and the BBS community for around 40 years. I have not been a member of fidonet that long, but kept an eye on changes to the community, etc.

What is a topic that we should address, other than kicking me out? lol

I always speak with sincerity as I do not want to ever offend anyone. Please do not take this as I am barking at you or directing a rude tone towards you.

-Jason

--- ProBoard v2.32
* Origin: ProBoard WHQ - SiliconUnderground - siliconu.com (1:267/310)

On <26 Feb, 21:03>, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to Rob Swindell :

Hi Rob,

On 2025-02-26 11:50:53, you wrote to Tim Schattkowsky:

I accept.

Acknowledged. And yes, we got the conforming acknowledgement late,

but we all

saw the acknowledgement before and now Tim has demonstrated that he

has the

knowledge and ability to comply with the rules of the election.

Hardly...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.4-B20240523
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Wilfred,

I do NOT know Tim, but I always like to look first at the situation and look at positives AND negatives.

After researching Tim, I see that he was an FTSC Standing Member, which his term ended 28 Mar 2024 and he has demonstrated that he understands the technology by writing point software (WinPoint). He may have been replying using his point software accidentally. I doubt it was intentional or malicious.

If the rules state that you must use a "real" fidonet address and not a point address, originally, then that is a negative, but he clearly understands what the purpose of this committee is. It looks like we need dedicated members,

Regardless, he is willing to participate in a skilled capacity and clearly understands the ask. People in this echo are mentioning that the FTSC is dead or useless unless people come together and participate.

Send Tim a netmail to his address and see what comes back.

We should all create an agenda and collaborate on those topics instead of a bunch of people being frustrated over many different things. I am coming into this with very little initial visibility.

I took being nominated as an honor. Some may laugh at my comment, but I have had a passion for fidonet and the BBS community for around 40 years. I have not been a member of fidonet that long, but kept an eye on changes to the community, etc.

What is a topic that we should address, other than kicking me out? lol

I always speak with sincerity as I do not want to ever offend anyone. Please do not take this as I am barking at you or directing a rude tone towards you.

-Jason

--- ProBoard v2.32
* Origin: ProBoard WHQ - SiliconUnderground - siliconu.com (1:267/310)

Re: Re: Nomination
By: Wilfred van Velzen to Rob Swindell on Wed Feb 26 2025 09:04 pm

Isn't a "point node" still a node?

A "point node"? Since when is that a thing?

I guess it's not. And that's a good thing cause the term could be confusing.
--
Rob Swindell
FTSC Standing Member and stand-in Election Coordinator
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Re: Re: Nomination
By: Tim Schattkowsky to Michiel van der Vlist on Thu Feb 27 2025 03:14 am

this area we see clearly that in reality there is almost no CP437 and a busload if IBMPC ...

Are you talking about the CHRS kludge values?

Here's the counts as I see for this area currently:

$ grep -c CHRS.*IBMPC
70

$ grep -c CHRS.*CP437
516

$ grep -c CHRS.*UTF-8
686
--
Rob Swindell
FTSC Standing Member and stand-in Election Coordinator
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Hello Jason,

On Wednesday February 26 2025 22:39, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

Send Tim a netmail to his address and see what comes back.

How?

There is no contact information for 2:2/29 in the nodelist.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Nieuw Schnøørd (2:280/5555)

MvdV> Hello Jason,
MvdV>
MvdV> On Wednesday February 26 2025 22:39, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen: MvdV>
MvdV> JB> Send Tim a netmail to his address and see what comes back.
MvdV>
MvdV> How?
MvdV>
MvdV> There is no contact information for 2:2/29 in the nodelist.
MvdV>
MvdV>
MvdV> Cheers, Michiel
MvdV>
MvdV> --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
MvdV> * Origin: Nieuw Schnøørd (2:280/5555)

Michiel,

You do have a valid "point". lol

If you send a netmail to 2:2/29, it should go to Ward's system and sit there until Tim polls Ward's system since Tim does not have a url/IP listed in his nodelist entry.

Zone,2,Eur_(024),B,Ward_Dossche,-Unpublished-,300,CM,MO,INA:many-glacier.dyndns.org,IBN,IFT,PING,IMI:fido@dossche.org,U,ENC
,2,Fidonews_Editor,Sweden,Bjorn_Felten,46-31-960447,33600,CM,XA,V34,INA:eljaco.se,IBN:24555
,29,WinPoint_Help,D,Tim_Schattkowsky,-Unpublished-,300

I have to review the voting/nomination rules, but he does have a node, just cannot crash to it. Maybe, the rules need to state that there has to be a way to crash mail to the operator. Again, I need to review the rules before standing on what I am thinking out loud here.

-Jason

--- ProBoard v2.32
* Origin: ProBoard WHQ - SiliconUnderground - siliconu.com (1:267/310)

MvdV> Hello Jason,
MvdV>
MvdV> On Wednesday February 26 2025 22:39, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen: MvdV>
MvdV> JB> Send Tim a netmail to his address and see what comes back.
MvdV>
MvdV> How?
MvdV>
MvdV> There is no contact information for 2:2/29 in the nodelist.
MvdV>
MvdV>
MvdV> Cheers, Michiel
MvdV>
MvdV> --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
MvdV> * Origin: Nieuw Schnøørd (2:280/5555)

Michiel,

You do have a valid "point". lol

If you send a netmail to 2:2/29, it should go to Ward's system and sit there until Tim polls Ward's system since Tim does not have a url/IP listed in his nodelist entry.

Zone,2,Eur_(024),B,Ward_Dossche,-Unpublished-,300,CM,MO,INA:many-glacier.dyndns.org,IBN,IFT,PING,IMI:fido@dossche.org,U,ENC
,2,Fidonews_Editor,Sweden,Bjorn_Felten,46-31-960447,33600,CM,XA,V34,INA:eljaco.se,IBN:24555
,29,WinPoint_Help,D,Tim_Schattkowsky,-Unpublished-,300

I have to review the voting/nomination rules, but he does have a node, just cannot crash to it. Maybe, the rules need to state that there has to be a way to crash mail to the operator. Again, I need to review the rules before standing on what I am thinking out loud here.

-Jason

--- ProBoard v2.32
* Origin: ProBoard WHQ - SiliconUnderground - siliconu.com (1:267/310)

Hello Michiel!

27 Feb 25 11:34, you wrote to Jason Bock:

Send Tim a netmail to his address and see what comes back.

How?

There is no contact information for 2:2/29 in the nodelist.

The same way you would send NetMail to any Private node, routing it via his uplink.

Andrew

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: From the Desk of the FTSC Administrator (1:320/219)

Hi Jason,

On 2025-02-27 06:15:07, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

,29,WinPoint_Help,D,Tim_Schattkowsky,-Unpublished-,300

I have to review the voting/nomination rules, but he does have a node,

He doesn't have a node, only a node-number. And that is not the same thing.

just cannot crash to it. Maybe, the rules need to state that there
has to be a way to crash mail to the operator.

Maybe the rules should state points can become members?


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.4-B20240523
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hi Jason,

On 2025-02-27 06:15:07, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

,29,WinPoint_Help,D,Tim_Schattkowsky,-Unpublished-,300

I have to review the voting/nomination rules, but he does have a

node,

He doesn't have a node, only a node-number. And that is not the same thing.

just cannot crash to it. Maybe, the rules need to state that there has to be a way to crash mail to the operator.

Maybe the rules should state points can become members?

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.4-B20240523
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Wilfred,

I agree that members should be fully functional so they can receive up to the minute updates, etc.

If it does not ste that in the rules or it is grey, then we need to make it much more clear.

-Jason

--- ProBoard v2.32
* Origin: ProBoard WHQ - SiliconUnderground - siliconu.com (1:267/310)

Hi Jason,

On 2025-02-27 06:15:07, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

,29,WinPoint_Help,D,Tim_Schattkowsky,-Unpublished-,300

I have to review the voting/nomination rules, but he does have a

node,

He doesn't have a node, only a node-number. And that is not the same thing.

just cannot crash to it. Maybe, the rules need to state that there has to be a way to crash mail to the operator.

Maybe the rules should state points can become members?

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.4-B20240523
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Wilfred,

I agree that members should be fully functional so they can receive up to the minute updates, etc.

If it does not ste that in the rules or it is grey, then we need to make it much more clear.

-Jason

--- ProBoard v2.32
* Origin: ProBoard WHQ - SiliconUnderground - siliconu.com (1:267/310)

Hello Andrew,

On Thursday February 27 2025 07:12, you wrote to me:

How?

There is no contact information for 2:2/29 in the nodelist.

The same way you would send NetMail to any Private node, routing it
via his uplink.

He has indeed the reachebility of a Pvt node. Mail to Pvt nodes can be routed to the Hub or Host.

But Pvt nodes may only be nodes in a regular network, they may not be a RIN or ZIN. The reason fo that restriction should be obvious.

Other that that: Pvt nodes do not qualify as "nodes of good standing". They should not qualify for FTSC membership.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Nieuw Schnøørd (2:280/5555)

Hello Wilfred,

On Thursday February 27 2025 13:18, you wrote to Jason Bock:

He doesn't have a node, only a node-number. And that is not the same thing.

just cannot crash to it. Maybe, the rules need to state that
there has to be a way to crash mail to the operator.

Maybe the rules should state points can become members?

If it is the wish of the Fisonet community that operators of a point system can become FTSC members than the rules can be changed accordingly. If..

But that should be done /before/ the election. Fo the present election points do not qualify.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Nieuw Schnøørd (2:280/5555)

Hello Jason,

On Thursday February 27 2025 06:15, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> How?
MvdV>>
MvdV>> There is no contact information for 2:2/29 in the nodelist.

You do have a valid "point". lol

Thank you.

If you send a netmail to 2:2/29, it should go to Ward's system and sit there until Tim polls Ward's system since Tim does not have a url/IP listed in his nodelist entry.

I suggest you consult P4 about the routing duties of *Cs.

Hint: Only Hosts and Hubs have routing duties.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Nieuw Schnøørd (2:280/5555)

Hi Michiel,

On 2025-02-27 13:46:23, you wrote to me:

Maybe the rules should state points can become members?

MvdV> If it is the wish of the Fisonet community that operators of a point system
MvdV> can become FTSC members than the rules can be changed accordingly. If..

MvdV> But that should be done /before/ the election. Fo the present election points
MvdV> do not qualify.

Agreed!


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.4-B20240523
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello Tim,

On Thursday February 27 2025 03:14, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> Note the words "MUST NOT" in the first line of this paragraph.
MvdV>> So when will you make your software FS-5003 complient?

Yes. I think we had this before. The failure of the FTSC to update the standards to reflect actual practice is indeed notable.

And what have you done during the 2 years that you were an FTSC member before?

I have not seen any proposals for updating FTS-5003. Or any other standard from you.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Nieuw Schnøørd (2:280/5555)

//Hello Jason,//

on *27.02.2025* at *6:15:07* You wrote in Area *FTSC_PUBLIC*
to *Michiel van der Vlist* about *"Nomination"*.

If you send a netmail to 2:2/29, it should go to Ward's system and sit there until Tim polls Ward's system since Tim does not have a url/IP listed in his nodelist entry.

Zone,2,Eur_(024),B,Ward_Dossche,-Unpublished-,300,CM,MO,INA:many-glacier. dyndns.org,IBN,IFT,PING,IMI:fido@dossche.org,U,ENC ,2,Fidonews_Editor,Sweden,Bjorn_Felten,46-31-960447,33600,CM,XA,V34,INA:e ljaco.se,IBN:24555 ,29,WinPoint_Help,D,Tim_Schattkowsky,-Unpublished-,300

Fantastic work.

I have to review the voting/nomination rules, but he does have a node, just cannot crash to it. Maybe, the rules need to state that there has
to be a way to crash mail to the operator. Again, I need to review the rules before standing on what I am thinking out loud here.

Interesting conclusion. So you believe, there is a rule missing to kick me out and want to invent one? Just to let everbody know about your mindset: Explain why that would be good.

I probably know more about fido technology then 99% of the other nodes combined. However, unlike some people here, I dont feel this urge to rule about something.

My impression is that you want to bully me out because a few guys already think that the whole remains of Fidonet are just their personal playground. Whole areas are taken over by single persons and flooded with their personal bullshit. Other traffic barely exists anymore.

I dont give much about FTSC. I wanted to help ... and you people do need help.

Regards,
Tim

--- WinPoint 415.0
* Origin: Original WinPoint Origin! (2:2/29)

Re: Nomination
By: Michiel van der Vlist to Andrew Leary on Thu Feb 27 2025 01:42 pm

Howdy,

Other that that: Pvt nodes do not qualify as "nodes of good standing". They should not qualify for FTSC membership.

According to what?


...ëîåï
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (3:633/509)

Re: Re: Nomination
By: Tim Schattkowsky to Jason Bock on Thu Feb 27 2025 06:03 pm

I dont give much about FTSC. I wanted to help ... and you people do need help.

This is nobel and I support the acceptence of your nomination (though, I don't get a vote in the election). I don't understand why some people feel like they're guarding Fort Knox with their votes or public oppositions. This is an arcane unlicensed hobby. Let's not play government here.
--
Rob Swindell
FTSC Standing Member and stand-in Election Coordinator
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)

Michiel,

Hint: Only Hosts and Hubs have routing duties.

When I was elected ZC for the first time in 1994 for me it was totally ridiculous not to route. Use the tree-structure of the nodelist and netmail "always" arrives. I thought it was a genuine improvement over classic routing-schemes ...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

//Hello Jason,//

on *27.02.2025* at *6:15:07* You wrote in Area *FTSC_PUBLIC*
to *Michiel van der Vlist* about *"Nomination"*.

If you send a netmail to 2:2/29, it should go to Ward's system and

sit

there until Tim polls Ward's system since Tim does not have a url/IP listed in his nodelist entry.

Zone,2,Eur_(024),B,Ward_Dossche,-Unpublished-,300,CM,MO,INA:many-

glacier.

dyndns.org,IBN,IFT,PING,IMI:fido@dossche.org,U,ENC ,2,Fidonews_Editor,Sweden,Bjorn_Felten,46-31-

960447,33600,CM,XA,V34,INA:e

ljaco.se,IBN:24555 ,29,WinPoint_Help,D,Tim_Schattkowsky,-Unpublished-

,300

Fantastic work.

I have to review the voting/nomination rules, but he does have a

node,

just cannot crash to it. Maybe, the rules need to state that there

has

to be a way to crash mail to the operator. Again, I need to review

the

rules before standing on what I am thinking out loud here.

Interesting conclusion. So you believe, there is a rule missing to kick
me out and want to invent one? Just to let everbody know about your mindset: Explain why that would be good.

I probably know more about fido technology then 99% of the other nodes combined. However, unlike some people here, I dont feel this urge to rule about something.

My impression is that you want to bully me out because a few guys already think that the whole remains of Fidonet are just their personal playground. Whole areas are taken over by single persons and flooded with their personal bullshit. Other traffic barely exists anymore.

I dont give much about FTSC. I wanted to help ... and you people do need help.

Regards,
Tim

--- WinPoint 415.0
* Origin: Original WinPoint Origin! (2:2/29)

Tim,

I do NOT want you kicked out. I was spitballing. I want input from everyone. This has turned into a Soccer Dad's dream of yelling, pushing blame, etc.

I personally am for all to help, create and build for the future.

Tim, I do not know you, but I know that you can provide a lot of help.

-Jason

--- ProBoard v2.32
* Origin: ProBoard WHQ - SiliconUnderground - siliconu.com (1:267/310)

//Hello Jason,//

on *27.02.2025* at *6:15:07* You wrote in Area *FTSC_PUBLIC*
to *Michiel van der Vlist* about *"Nomination"*.

If you send a netmail to 2:2/29, it should go to Ward's system and

sit

there until Tim polls Ward's system since Tim does not have a url/IP listed in his nodelist entry.

Zone,2,Eur_(024),B,Ward_Dossche,-Unpublished-,300,CM,MO,INA:many-

glacier.

dyndns.org,IBN,IFT,PING,IMI:fido@dossche.org,U,ENC ,2,Fidonews_Editor,Sweden,Bjorn_Felten,46-31-

960447,33600,CM,XA,V34,INA:e

ljaco.se,IBN:24555 ,29,WinPoint_Help,D,Tim_Schattkowsky,-Unpublished-

,300

Fantastic work.

I have to review the voting/nomination rules, but he does have a

node,

just cannot crash to it. Maybe, the rules need to state that there

has

to be a way to crash mail to the operator. Again, I need to review

the

rules before standing on what I am thinking out loud here.

Interesting conclusion. So you believe, there is a rule missing to kick
me out and want to invent one? Just to let everbody know about your mindset: Explain why that would be good.

I probably know more about fido technology then 99% of the other nodes combined. However, unlike some people here, I dont feel this urge to rule about something.

My impression is that you want to bully me out because a few guys already think that the whole remains of Fidonet are just their personal playground. Whole areas are taken over by single persons and flooded with their personal bullshit. Other traffic barely exists anymore.

I dont give much about FTSC. I wanted to help ... and you people do need help.

Regards,
Tim

--- WinPoint 415.0
* Origin: Original WinPoint Origin! (2:2/29)

Tim,

I do NOT want you kicked out. I was spitballing. I want input from everyone. This has turned into a Soccer Dad's dream of yelling, pushing blame, etc.

I personally am for all to help, create and build for the future.

Tim, I do not know you, but I know that you can provide a lot of help.

-Jason

--- ProBoard v2.32
* Origin: ProBoard WHQ - SiliconUnderground - siliconu.com (1:267/310)

Hello Michiel!

27 Feb 25 13:53, you wrote to Jason Bock:

I suggest you consult P4 about the routing duties of *Cs.

Hint: Only Hosts and Hubs have routing duties.

Are there really RCs or ZCs in FidoNet today that do not route mail? Policy 4 is outdated in this regard (as well as many others), but I'm not going to hold my breath on it ever being updated. I'd look silly turning blue, after all.

Revising FidoNet Policy is next to impossible with the current process that is specified.

Andrew

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
* Origin: From the Desk of the FTSC Administrator (1:320/219)

On Feb 27, 2025 11:57pm, Andrew Leary wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

Hi Andrew,

Are there really RCs or ZCs in FidoNet today that do not route mail? Policy 4 is outdated in this regard (as well as many others), but I'm
not going to hold my breath on it ever being updated. I'd look silly turning blue, after all.

Totally agree, it was done 30+ years ago when I was in Zone 6.

Revising FidoNet Policy is next to impossible with the current process that is specified.

Very sad but true that it near impossible to update P4.

Terry

... Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v7.0
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! https://tfb-bbs.org (3:712/1321)

Hello deon,

On Friday February 28 2025 07:39, you wrote to me:

Other that that: Pvt nodes do not qualify as "nodes of good
standing". They should not qualify for FTSC membership.

According to what?

Almost four decades of tradition in what was designed as and basically still is a peer to peer network.

Pvt nodes break with the principle of peer to peer connectivity. Therefore they were never considered fully fledged nodes. They are client only instead of the client/servers that fully fledged nodes are. You can not build a network with client only nodes.

Syops from Pvt nodes are not allowed to vote in most election. If only because it os difficult to confirn that they ectually exist and are not just the figment of imagination of the NC.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Nieuw Schnøørd (2:280/5555)

Hello Ward,

On Thursday February 27 2025 22:25, you wrote to me:

Hint: Only Hosts and Hubs have routing duties.

When I was elected ZC for the first time in 1994 for me it was totally ridiculous not to route. Use the tree-structure of the nodelist and netmail "always" arrives. I thought it was a genuine improvement over classic routing-schemes ...

When you were elected as ZC for the first time calling across a national border was hineously expensive. Even calling to the other side of the same country was expensive. Have you forgotten that?

There were good reasons for only hubs and hosts having routing oubligations.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Nieuw Schnøørd (2:280/5555)

Hello Andrew,

On Thursday February 27 2025 23:52, you wrote to me:

Hint: Only Hosts and Hubs have routing duties.

Are there really RCs or ZCs in FidoNet today that do not route mail?

I did when I was RC, I do not know about all others. There may be a few left that don't. What I do know is that there are some I do not want to route my mail through them.

Policy 4 is outdated in this regard (as well as many others), but I'm
not going to hold my breath on it ever being updated. I'd look silly turning blue, after all.

Sabotaging an attempt to change P4 is easier than actually changing it. As we found out some three decades ago. :-(

Other than that: Obviously one can not form a network with nodes that can only make outgoing calls. One needs at least some nodes that can accept incoming calls. That alone places Pvt nodes in a lower class. A fully fledged node - a "node of good standing" - supports both incoming and outgoing calls.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Nieuw Schnøørd (2:280/5555)

Michiel,

When I was elected ZC for the first time in 1994 for me it was
totally ridiculous not to route. Use the tree-structure of the
nodelist and netmail "always" arrives. I thought it was a genuine
improvement over classic routing-schemes ...

When you were elected as ZC for the first time calling across a national border was hineously expensive. Even calling to the other side of the
same country was expensive. Have you forgotten that?

Yes, and how do you think I got my mail and the files?

Indeed, by calling across borders ...

But, dear genius, as every RC was calling in here multiple times a week, that was how netmail moved and the transfering of those volumes did not take hours, not even minutes ... Using the tree was the most secure way to route the netmail...it still is.

Besides, there are hobbies that are way more expensive ... If you don't want to spend the money, better not have a hobby.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)

Re: Nomination
By: Michiel van der Vlist to deon on Sat Mar 01 2025 10:31 am

Howdy,

Other that that: Pvt nodes do not qualify as "nodes of good
standing". They should not qualify for FTSC membership.

According to what?

Almost four decades of tradition in what was designed as and basically still is a peer to peer network.

Sorry, I dont follow "do not qualify", because of "tradition".

Most discussion/bickering in this sub is because of rules or interpretation thereof, so "because of tradition" seems odd.



...ëîåï
--- SBBSecho 3.23-Linux
* Origin: I'm playing with ANSI+videotex - wanna play too? (3:633/509)

Hello Ward,

On Saturday March 01 2025 17:13, you wrote to me:

When you were elected as ZC for the first time calling across a
national border was hineously expensive. Even calling to the other
side of the same country was expensive. Have you forgotten that?

Yes, and how do you think I got my mail and the files?

By having others call you? Others that were a member of some kind of organisation that had the cost shared among the members?


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Nieuw Schnøørd (2:280/5555)

Michiel,

Yes, and how do you think I got my mail and the files?

By having others call you? Others that were a member of some kind of organisation that had the cost shared among the members?

Most not, fighting about that and measuring penis-sizes when that was concerned was typically something Dutch.

No RC ever complained, the general reflection being that a lot less netmail got lost.

I also called-out for interzonal stuff and 'that' was the expensive stuff.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - 20230201
* Origin: Many Glacier - Preserve / Protect / Conserve (2:292/854)