• Russia and Ukraine

    From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Alexander Koryagin on Thu May 26 09:37:34 2022
    You (and many people in the West) call a puppet government any
    government friendly to Russia. ;-) It is wrong of course. And in Russia
    many also stick such labels to the US satellites.

    A puppet government is not hard to describe. It is a government put in place of an existing government by force. That is what Russia has tried to do in Ukraine. They have done that on a smaller scale in some regions of Ukraine.

    Why should the Ukrainian people allow Russian troops enter freely?
    Would Russia allow Ukrainian troops to enter freely?

    Ukrainian President could chose two way to treat Russia - diplomacy or a
    war. As an idiot he chose a war and a great damage to his country.

    That was not a choice he made. That was a choice Russia made.

    Ukraine has already lost much more than it would lose in the peaceful
    variant of resistance.

    What is this peaceful variant of resistance you speak of?

    Well, how to explain it to you -- suppose you
    meet a bad strong company who demands money from you. And you should
    weigh carefully your broken bones and medical bills against some money
    you give away. ;=))

    I see. Ukraine should have given Russia it's money so Russia wouldn't break their bones?

    Do you actually believe these things you say? ;)

    What is wrong? The fact that Ukraine has blockaded Donbass for 8 years?

    The Donbass is Ukrainian territory. How do you imagine that Ukraine blockaded it?

    I can believe that Russian has blockaded Ukrainian exports of wheat and other goods. Going so far as to steal Ukrainian wheat.

    https://youtu.be/ZC0tSAJ5WSY

    This is what you are defending and supporting.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From Alan Ianson@1:153/757 to Alexander Koryagin on Fri May 27 23:53:46 2022
    A puppet government is not hard to describe. It is a government put
    in place of an existing government by force. That is what Russia
    has tried to do in Ukraine. They have done that on a smaller scale
    in some regions of Ukraine.

    Well, to say the truth, it is a common worldwide practice. The US has
    done it all the the time when it wants to have a friendly government in
    some country. It was in Haiti, Panama, Honduras, Nicaragua etc, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Libya. Military juntas installed by the US is a common thing in the South America, remember Chile for instance. So it is
    not the US who has a moral right to teach others in this respect.

    You are deflecting. We are talking about Russian actions in Ukraine and what a puppet government is.

    What is this peaceful variant of resistance you speak of?

    Well it easy -- western economic sanctions are a 20 times more effective weapon than the resistance of the Ukrainian good-for-nothing troops dug
    down in civil areas and towns

    Sanctions are not a weapon. They are a reaction to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. If Russia had not done that there would be no sanctions. The same is true of the sanctions imposed after Russia originally invaded Ukraine some years back although those sanctions were on a much smaller scale.

    -- the main cause of numeral deaths of
    civilians in Ukraine. Also these bastards prohibit civilians to leave
    the towns under an attack. It is a well known fact. Russian people in
    such towns are used as a living shield of the Ukrainian army.

    You've been watching to much Russian state TV, you should stop that. It is not doing you any good.

    Today the Donbass is destroyed, by Russian forces. Not something else.

    I see. Ukraine should have given Russia it's money so Russia
    wouldn't break their bones?

    Not money, but concessions -- it just should to stop its nationalistic
    policy towards the Russian-speaking population in Ukraine, to give an autonomy to Russian-speaking regions. It was realistic.

    So we are back at concessions again? What concessions do you imagine Ukraine should offer to you, so that you don't break their bones?

    The Donbass is Ukrainian territory. How do you imagine that Ukraine
    blockaded it?

    By tanks and military of course.

    Yes, of course. How and why do you imagine that Ukraine blockaded their own territory?

    Well, the main task for the West now is to carry out the Ukrainian grain
    out of the country.

    You are not making any sense. It is not a task of the west to carry anything out of Ukraine. It never was.

    The declared aim is to feed the world population.

    Nothing has been declared. The Russian blockade of Ukraine's exports creates a world food shortage, among other things.

    Russia is also participate in the process --

    Yes, Russia participated in the theft of this grain from Ukraine.

    Russia is the largest producer of grain in the world. If it wanted to help any country it could ship it's grain to them itself.

    That is not what happened. Russia shipped wheat stolen from Ukraine.

    it doesn't confiscate the grain for itself.

    No it doesn't. That grain was stolen from Ukraine.

    There are many grain in Ukraine on the Russian held
    territory and it is logically to say that only Russian ships can deliver
    it out.

    What!? Ukraine will ship their wheat, not Russia.

    Russia has much wheat that they can ship if they so choose.

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-6
    * Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)
  • From alexander koryagin@2:5075/128.130 to Alan Ianson on Mon May 30 10:55:34 2022
    Hi, Alan Ianson!
    I read your message from 28.05.2022 09:53

    AI>>> What is this peaceful variant of resistance you speak of?
    ak>> Well it easy -- western economic sanctions are a 20 times more
    ak>> effective weapon than the resistance of the Ukrainian good-for-
    ak>> nothing troops dug down in civil areas and towns

    AI> Sanctions are not a weapon. They are a reaction to the Russian
    AI> invasion of Ukraine. If Russia had not done that there would be no
    AI> sanctions. The same is true of the sanctions imposed after Russia
    AI> originally invaded Ukraine some years back although those sanctions
    AI> were on a much smaller scale.

    Even a word in mass-media is a weapon. Russia has got under sanctions
    because it lost an information war. And many have believed that Russia
    is guilty in everything, however there are many of those who must share
    the blame, whose policy has been not less reckless than Putin's.

    ak>> -- the main cause of numeral deaths of civilians in Ukraine. Also
    ak>> these bastards prohibit civilians to leave the towns under an
    ak>> attack. It is a well known fact. Russian people in such towns are
    ak>> used as a living shield of the Ukrainian army.

    AI> You've been watching to much Russian state TV, you should stop
    AI> that. It is not doing you any good.

    Just tell me - who resists civilians to leave a Ukrainian town under
    siege? Russian troops?

    <skipped>
    ak>> Not money, but concessions -- it just should to stop its
    ak>> nationalistic policy towards the Russian-speaking population in
    ak>> Ukraine, to give an autonomy to Russian-speaking regions. It was
    ak>> realistic.

    AI> So we are back at concessions again? What concessions do you
    AI> imagine Ukraine should offer to you, so that you don't break their
    AI> bones?

    If a person is an idiot, deaf and hate you -- you can speak to him even
    for 8 years without result. So it was with Ukrainian politicians.

    AI>>> The Donbass is Ukrainian territory. How do you imagine that
    AI>>> Ukraine blockaded it?

    ak>> By tanks and military of course.

    AI> Yes, of course. How and why do you imagine that Ukraine blockaded
    AI> their own territory?

    It blockaded the living people who were against the Kiev 2014 coup. And
    such a reaction was predictable. Yanukovich had been an elected
    President, it meant that more than a half of Ukraine (without Crimea) supported him.

    ak>> Well, the main task for the West now is to carry out the Ukrainian
    ak>> grain out of the country.
    AI> You are not making any sense. It is not a task of the west to carry
    AI> anything out of Ukraine. It never was.
    ak>> The declared aim is to feed the world population.
    AI> Nothing has been declared. The Russian blockade of Ukraine's
    AI> exports creates a world food shortage, among other things.

    It is a poor propaganda that Russian navy doesn't allow Ukrainian or
    other ships to carry grain from Ukraine. There is no sense in that, more
    of that -- all Ukrainian ports are mined by Ukraine itself.

    ak>> Russia is also participate in the process --
    AI> Yes, Russia participated in the theft of this grain from Ukraine.
    AI> Russia is the largest producer of grain in the world. If it wanted
    AI> to help any country it could ship it's grain to them itself.

    Yes, it can provide the world with its own grain. I think the scale of
    so called theft should be checked -- after Russia had built the Crimean
    bridge and the highway from Kerch to Sevastopol it can be logical to
    carry the grain from Russia's Kuban region to Sevastopol port by land.
    So the grain shown in that CNN report could be Russian.
    <skipped>


    Bye, Alan!
    Alexander Koryagin
    fido.debate,local.cc.ak 2022
    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
    * Origin: Usenet Network (2:5075/128.130)