Ross Branham wrote to Dave Drum <=-

I moved on to the Commode Door 64 after the TRaSh-80. A number of those are still in service (the motherboards anyweay) with NOAA reporting on tides and monitoring costal oceanographic data.
And one of the last remaining video rental companies in USA (Family
Video) ran their whole company on a Tandy 1000 using home brewed Linux software until their demise last year. It was head-quartered just a mile or so from my house

I would like to know what other old computers are being
used for daily business use. It's amazing to me that
they're still in use as old as they are.

Check many state agencis and school districts here in Illinois. One of
the guys I meet with monthly for pizza and beverage got his current gig w/Illinois Department on Aging because he can maintain and modify the
COCOL code running on their old Burroughs mainframe. Bv)=


... "We made too many wrong mistakes." -- Yogi Berra
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Check many state agencis and school districts here in Illinois. One of
the guys I meet with monthly for pizza and beverage got his current gig w/Illinois Department on Aging because he can maintain and modify the
COCOL code running on their old Burroughs mainframe. Bv)=

I assume you mean COBOL? That is a skill that I also have. Here, there
are still state systems that run on an IBM mainframe. There are also one
or two non-mainframe systems that include some PC-COBOL modules.

Mike


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Mike Powell wrote to DAVE DRUM <=-

I assume you mean COBOL? That is a skill that I also have. Here,
there are still state systems that run on an IBM mainframe. There are also one or two non-mainframe systems that include some PC-COBOL
modules.

You know that the current elist bot is written in COBOL? That's why it
can't handle netmail requests.

-- Sean

... Amiga made it possible. Commodore made it dead.
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Mike Powell wrote to DAVE DRUM <=-

Check many state agencis and school districts here in Illinois. One of
the guys I meet with monthly for pizza and beverage got his current gig w/Illinois Department on Aging because he can maintain and modify the
COCOL code running on their old Burroughs mainframe. Bv)=

I assume you mean COBOL? That is a skill that I also have. Here,
there are still state systems that run on an IBM mainframe. There are also one or two non-mainframe systems that include some PC-COBOL
modules.

Fat fingered that one, didn't I? Laszlo also does Fortran. Me, I haven't
done any coding since the Amiga took the gas pipe. And that was mostly
basic and some (very) simple assembler.

... Given a choice between two theories, take the one which is funnier.
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I assume you mean COBOL? That is a skill that I also have. Here,
there are still state systems that run on an IBM mainframe. There are also one or two non-mainframe systems that include some PC-COBOL modules.

You know that the current elist bot is written in COBOL? That's why it
can't handle netmail requests.

I thought it might be in COBOL but I was not sure.

Mike


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Fat fingered that one, didn't I? Laszlo also does Fortran. Me, I haven't
done any coding since the Amiga took the gas pipe. And that was mostly
basic and some (very) simple assembler.

Fortran is one I never dabbled in. In college it was "sold" as more for engineers. I did dable in PASCAL a little 30+ years ago. BASIC also, and equally as long ago.

More recently (10 years) I took a class in Python. It was also meant more
for engineers, I later figured out.

COBOL is more straight-forward. Define all your variables, maintain
structure for legibility, etc. For my brain, it made more sense.


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Mike Powell wrote to DAVE DRUM <=-

Fortran is one I never dabbled in. In college it was "sold" as more
for engineers. I did dable in PASCAL a little 30+ years ago. BASIC
also, and equally as long ago.

I started in FORTRAN first, tutored a class (where I got my handle...)
and then Pascal and ANSI C. I remember a great book called "Numerical
Recipes in FORTRAN" that was full of code snippets and flow charts for
most analytics needs, it was like a "Cliff's Notes" for every FORTRAN
text. Later on, they translated it to C, which seemed a much more
cumbersome language for the kind of algorithms in the book.


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Mike Powell wrote to DAVE DRUM <=-

Fat fingered that one, didn't I? Laszlo also does Fortran. Me, I haven't done any coding since the Amiga took the gas pipe. And that was mostly
basic and some (very) simple assembler.

Fortran is one I never dabbled in. In college it was "sold" as more
for engineers. I did dable in PASCAL a little 30+ years ago. BASIC
also, and equally as long ago.

More recently (10 years) I took a class in Python. It was also meant
more for engineers, I later figured out.

COBOL is more straight-forward. Define all your variables, maintain structure for legibility, etc. For my brain, it made more sense.

Python is a "scripting" language which I never messed with. I did fool
around some with EMACS (mostly "micro-EMACS". And JAVA. On the Amiga it
was all aRexx - which could get as convoluted as Basic sometimes.

Haven't messed about with any of it for donkey's years.

... Amiga made it possible. Commodore made it dead.
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Dave Drum wrote to Mike Powell <=-

Python is a "scripting" language which I never messed with.

Point of order: Python can also be compiled.

was all aRexx - which could get as convoluted as Basic sometimes.

I use Classic REXX (can be compiled under OS/2) and bash scripts all the
time under ArcaOS. My BBS and Micronet couldn't function properly without them!

I could write Pascal programs to do the work but that would add a lot of unneeded overhead to all of those automated tasks.

I learned UCSD Pascal on a TRS-80 Model III in 1987 and still use Pascal (Borland syntax) to this day.

I could learn to write in C--I can read C programs due to my Pascal background--but I have found that for me other languages suit me better.

Though I am interested in learning to compile the elist COBOL code. I've always had an interest in COBOL but never have had time to sit down and
learn it. That time might have finally arrived.

-- Sean

... Why is "abbreviated" such a long word?
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Sean Dennis wrote to Dave Drum <=-

Python is a "scripting" language which I never messed with.

Point of order: Python can also be compiled.

was all aRexx - which could get as convoluted as Basic sometimes.

I use Classic REXX (can be compiled under OS/2) and bash scripts all
the time under ArcaOS. My BBS and Micronet couldn't function properly without them!

I could write Pascal programs to do the work but that would add a lot
of unneeded overhead to all of those automated tasks.

I learned UCSD Pascal on a TRS-80 Model III in 1987 and still use
Pascal (Borland syntax) to this day.

I could learn to write in C--I can read C programs due to my Pascal background--but I have found that for me other languages suit me
better.

Though I am interested in learning to compile the elist COBOL code.
I've always had an interest in COBOL but never have had time to sit
down and learn it. That time might have finally arrived.

I suppose I could learn a programming language - but at 81 and with
limited time left on this whirling mud ball I don't see the benefit.

I don't ever write .bat files beyond a functional equivalent that I
use in vDos to make Meal Master easier to use for me.

We had a bit of discussion on Cobol and Fortran at my computer guys
(and girls) get-together last night. The only one of us still working
with 'puters has his current position because he can maintain the code
in a State of Illinois mainframe used to run most of his agency. Bv)=

Me, I sell car parts at AutoZone amd cuss the kiddies at the home office
who constantly futz with the OS (in Linux) the we use on the terminals
at the counter. I really hate it when I try to access something that
used to was easy to get to and has been buried under layers of menus
and steps. Or hidden entirely and must be accessed by opening another
program - like the catalogs for lawnmowers/garden tractors aor ATVs
and motorcycles/scooters or the Heavy Truck stuff.
... I don't hallucinate anymore, the Thing driving the UFO cured me...
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Me, I sell car parts at AutoZone amd cuss the kiddies at the home office
who constantly futz with the OS (in Linux) the we use on the terminals
at the counter. I really hate it when I try to access something that
used to was easy to get to and has been buried under layers of menus
and steps. Or hidden entirely and must be accessed by opening another
program - like the catalogs for lawnmowers/garden tractors aor ATVs
and motorcycles/scooters or the Heavy Truck stuff.

If AutoZone sells any of those "fart pipe" tailpipes, I hope you are not selling them to the kiddies who decide it is cool to put one on a Mustang.

This newer generation really needs someone to teach them about glasspacks
and to kick their asses for doing stupid stuff to their pony cars.

Mike


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Re: Re: Today in History - 1
By: Mike Powell to DAVE DRUM on Thu Aug 10 2023 09:27 am

If AutoZone sells any of those "fart pipe" tailpipes, I hope you are not selling them to the kiddies who decide it is cool to put one on a Mustang.

A what? I can't believe thats a real thing..

Candy

===
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...No good deed goes unpunished.
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If AutoZone sells any of those "fart pipe" tailpipes, I hope you are not selling them to the kiddies who decide it is cool to put one on a Mustang.

A what? I can't believe thats a real thing..

They restrict the flow of exhaust out of an engine so that the car sounds
more like a motorcycle... very shrill and unpleasant.

I cannot believe it either but it is very real. Kids used to put them on
their toyotas and hondas. Now they put them on Mustangs and V8 LTDs.

Mike


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Re: Re: Today in History - 1
By: Mike Powell to CANDY CANE on Fri Aug 11 2023 07:46 am

They restrict the flow of exhaust out of an engine so that the car sounds more like a motorcycle... very shrill and unpleasant.

Surely that would break some kind of Disturbing the Peace law? Also, that really doesn't sound safe..

Candy

===
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...A straw vote only shows which way the hot air blows.
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Dave Drum wrote to Sean Dennis <=-

We had a bit of discussion on Cobol and Fortran at my computer guys
(and girls) get-together last night. The only one of us still working
with 'puters has his current position because he can maintain the code
in a State of Illinois mainframe used to run most of his agency. Bv)=

Job security is a good thing.

Me, I sell car parts at AutoZone amd cuss the kiddies at the home
office who constantly futz with the OS (in Linux) the we use on the terminals at the counter. I really hate it when I try to access
something that used to was easy to get to and has been buried under
layers of menus and steps. Or hidden entirely and must be accessed by opening another program - like the catalogs for lawnmowers/garden
tractors aor ATVs and motorcycles/scooters or the Heavy Truck stuff.

Unfortunately, a lot of programmers have very odd ideas about UI/UX (user eXperience) stuff. I've seen the UI at AZ before. IMNSHO, it's overly complicated.

-- Sean

... Amiga made it possible. Commodore made it dead.
___ MultiMail/Linux v0.52

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Re: Re: Today in History - 1
By: Sean Dennis to Dave Drum on Sun Aug 13 2023 01:28 pm

Unfortunately, a lot of programmers have very odd ideas about UI/UX (user eXperience) stuff. I've seen the UI at AZ before. IMNSHO, it's overly complicated.

Yeah, everything nowadays seems to be overly minimal and "modern" with zero personality or 2011 no-personality apps with way too many buttons everywhere..

I miss aero.

Candy

===
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Sean Dennis wrote to Dave Drum <=-

We had a bit of discussion on Cobol and Fortran at my computer guys
(and girls) get-together last night. The only one of us still working
with 'puters has his current position because he can maintain the code
in a State of Illinois mainframe used to run most of his agency. Bv)=

Job security is a good thing.

In any field.

Me, I sell car parts at AutoZone amd cuss the kiddies at the home
office who constantly futz with the OS (in Linux) the we use on the terminals at the counter. I really hate it when I try to access
something that used to was easy to get to and has been buried under
layers of menus and steps. Or hidden entirely and must be accessed by opening another program - like the catalogs for lawnmowers/garden
tractors aor ATVs and motorcycles/scooters or the Heavy Truck stuff.

Unfortunately, a lot of programmers have very odd ideas about UI/UX
(user eXperience) stuff. I've seen the UI at AZ before. IMNSHO, it's overly complicated.

In my personal opinion the programmers should be required to work in a
retail store for a year (optimistically) using the software before they
are allowed to modify the look and feel. Still, it's somewhat easier
than when I first worked in the car parts biz. Back then we had a 30
foot long counter with physical print catalogs the full length.

When I came to AutoZone the interface was much simpler - and green
scren. It has evolved over the 18 years I've been there aimed at lowest
common denominator new hires and touch screen terminals. But, how hard
could it be to keep a link on the main screen to the "off road" catalogs?

Especially since we carry batteries, fuel filters, oil filters, etc. in
stock for garden tractors/lawnmowers as well as motorcycles. It would be
nice to be able to click on an icon and have the off road catalogs open.
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Re: Re: Today in History - 1
By: Dave Drum to Sean Dennis on Mon Aug 14 2023 04:52 am

In my personal opinion the programmers should be required to work in a retail store for a year (optimistically) using the software before they are allowed to modify the look and feel.

Yea, or having them mock-use it to see how cumbersome it is?

Candy

===
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Candy Cane wrote to Dave Drum <=-

In my personal opinion the programmers should be required to work in a retail store for a year (optimistically) using the software before they are allowed to modify the look and feel.

Yea, or having them mock-use it to see how cumbersome it is?

Oddly, they have set-up, at the headquarters complex a fully stocked
demo-store where they try out parts placement before they issue a new plan-o-gram to all 7K+ stores. And the occasional faux-pas still gets published. And is corrected later.

The other day my store manager asked me "Do you know where (item) is?"

To which I repled, "I know nwhere it was two plan-o-grams ago."

To their positive side - the newly introduce touch-screen POS terminals
work well and have folded seamlessly into the operations.

... "We made too many wrong mistakes." -- Yogi Berra
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Re: Re: Today in History - 1
By: Dave Drum to Candy Cane on Tue Aug 15 2023 04:48 am

Oddly, they have set-up, at the headquarters complex a fully stocked demo-store where they try out parts placement before they issue a new plan-o-gram to all 7K+ stores. And the occasional faux-pas still gets published. And is corrected later.

Oh that sounds cool. Do you use real food?

Candy

===
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You mean UAT? Nah -- who wants to have end users UAT something they need to use everyday? LOL

... The dog ate my .REP packet

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Re: Today in History - 1
By: Dave Drum to Candy Cane on Wed Aug 16 2023 06:42 am

Probably because when they see the prices they are paying for their car parts - all appetite disappears. Bv)=

Sounds about right.

Candy

===
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Me, I sell car parts at AutoZone amd cuss the kiddies at the home office who constantly futz with the OS (in Linux) the we use on the terminals at the counter. I really hate it when I try to access

In my personal opinion the programmers should be required to work in a retail store for a year (optimistically) using the software before they

Yeah, I agree. NAPA had the same type of System. Categories were a nightmare. Oil filters came under Tuneups and that sort of thing.

... The shortest distance between two points is under construction

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Steve Wolf wrote to Dave Drum <=-

Me, I sell car parts at AutoZone amd cuss the kiddies at the home office who constantly futz with the OS (in Linux) the we use on the terminals at the counter. I really hate it when I try to access

In my personal opinion the programmers should be required to work in a retail store for a year (optimistically) using the software before they

Yeah, I agree. NAPA had the same type of System. Categories were a nightmare. Oil filters came under Tuneups and that sort of
thing.

For all the hassles - like losing easy access to the "off-road" items
they did get a lot right. Like, if a customer wants brake pads the search brings up rotors and calipers as side-bars.

NAPA (or the dealer) is where I recommend that a customer go if I can't
get him what he says he wants. I never send customers to O'Reilly and
Advance Auto Parts is a dwindling presence.

Had a customer who was being a PITA ask if there was an O'Reilly's near
and I replied "Watch where you step. They're like dog t*rds. They're everywhere."

I fear we're skewing off topic here and I don't want to get a rocket
from the moderator. Bv)=
... I was so hungry I ate a vegetable!
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